This thread is to gauge the interest of the CK2+ subforums in a trio of Submods I am going to be working on out of a desire to 'fix' some aspects of the CK2+ that I feel have been either ignored, forgotten about, or just not known about by the CK2+ devs.
The three submods are as follows:
Thanks for reading this far. I know it was one heck of a read, but I wanted to gauge the interest of the Sub-Forum before I began working on any of these, and see what one people are the most interested in seeing done first.
The three submods are as follows:
- Order of the White Lotus (Name pending, open to suggestion)
Contrary to popular beleif, the Manichean religion never actually died out. In the Roman Empire they were suppressed by Emperor Theodosius I, but the regions that the Manichean faith were strongest also 'coincidentally' happened to have outbreaks of Neo-Manichean heresies: The Bogomils, Cathars, and Paulicans being the three big examples. It doesn't take much to realize that the Manichean faith never actually died out in the west, atleast not for close to a thousand years after Theodosius I began to supress them. It becomes ESPECIALLY more obvious when one looks at Manichaeism's history in China, where it, in various forms, lasted well into the modern age, until 1980.
Manichaeism in China fell into decline around the end of the 14th century, only to resurface shortly after as the 'White Lotus' secret society.
The White Lotus society was a fusion of Manichaeism and Buddism, and in the year 1351 began a rebellion known as the Red Turban Rebellion that, in the year 1368, overthrew the Yuan dynasty, and ended up establishing the Ming Dynasty... Who promptly began to supress the White Lotus.
The White Lotus society, for the most part, fades from History then, only to re-emerge twice. Once, in the year 1774 as a small rebellion that was quickly put down, and a final time in the year 1796, in an attempt to overthrow the Qing. Seeing as how the Qing lasted until 1912, they quite obviously failed, and the White Lotus fades from history, as the Qing began to double down on the persecution againts them.
However, this was not the end for the White Lotus society. It reformed as a sect known as 'Heavenly Principle Sect', and in the year 1813, another rebellion was attemtped, and almost succeded in overthrowing the Qing in a raid on the Forbidden City, but were barely beaten back by the Qing forces lead by Prince Mianning, who would later become The Daoguang Emperor. As usual, the Heavenly Principle Sect was suppressed, and once again, vanished from history... For a time, atleast.
In 1779, a man named Yang invented a form of Kung-Fu called Yi-he boxing (I highly suggest watching both those videos, really interesting) in Guan County. Qing authorities investigated him, but couldn't find him to question him. The Survivors of the Heavenly Principle Sect seem to have adopted this form of Martial Arts, and in the 1890s, organized themselves as the Yihequan - The Fists of Harmony and Justice... Also known as the Boxers to the western world. Yet again, they rose up in 1898, and their rebellion lasted until 1901, where they were destroyed by the western forces who strongarmed the Qing into fighting againts the Boxers.
Even this wasn't the end of them, however, as another secret sect called the Yellow Sand Society emerged, with the same beleifs as the White Lotus society. They were, however, ruthlessly supressed by the Communist Party, and three members of the Yellow Sand Society were arrested in 1980 for attempting to start a rebellion. Could that have been the end of the Manichean influence in China? Who knows. Seeing as how everyone, from thePersian Empire, to the Roman Empire, and all the way to the People's Republic of China have tried stamping them out, we'll see if they were finally ended for good.
So where am I going with this? Well, seeing as how Manichaeism seems to be so capable of going into hiding for centuries, only to pop back up out of nowhere and start major rebellions both in Europe and China, I figured that a secret society that works like a cross between a Secret Cult and the Assassins would fit for them. To join them, you must either be a follower of Manichaeism, a follower of one of the Neo-Manichaeism heresies (Bogomil, Paulican, Cathar, Messalian), or within a certain distance of a provence with one of those religions. If possible, the cult would allow the Neo-Manichaeism heretics to secretly convert to Manichaeism, and spread Manichaeism much like secret cults, as well as start powerful religious uprisings you can join.
- Early Christian Heresies (And other Christian Things)
As a Catholic who is VERY interested in the history of the Pre-Schism church, I was dismayed to learn that almost all the Calcedonian heresies were just Catholic Heresies, and the most common one that seems to pop up everywhere being the Cathars, who didn't even show up until the 12th century at earliest. Here are some examples of heresies that plauged the Early Church, yet aren't in the game:
Arianism - A heresy that was widespread among the Germans (and who's founder, Arius, was quite literally pimp slapped by Saint Nicholas of Myra, AKA SANTA CLAUS. He knows if you've been naughty indeed.) Arianism claimed that Jesus was a created being, and rejected the Holy Trinity. Arianism was especially common among the Germans, and in fact, if you look at the de Asturias dynasty's family tree, several of the historical figures they are descended from were Arian Kings. A fun fact: Arians still exist to this day. Jehova Witnesses profess the same beleifs that the Arians do, and the LDS church holds many of them as well. The Nicene Creed was written in 325 to reaffirm the fact that Christians beleive that Jesus is God, and not a created being.
Pneumatomachi - Much like the Arians, the Pneumatomachi were opposed to one of the three persons of te Trinity... This time, The Holy Spirit. They were deemed Heretical, and in 381, the second half the of Nicene Creed was written, confirming that yes, The Holy Spirit is God, not a created being.
There are other Trinitarian Heresies that generally either reject one of the three persons of the Trinity, but they really aren't worth mentioning, as these two were the two big ones. These two, honestly, are the ones I'd make for Chalcedonian heresies, but if people are interested in more historical heresies, I'd add more too.
This would also include expanded event chains for Pilgrimages (theyr'e stupidly short, especially compared to Sky Burial or the Muslim pilgrimage chain), and event chains for the Lent and Advent seasons (Leading up to Easter and Christmas, respectively).
- Na Matodinki Lemar - The Unconquered Sun (Sol Invictus)
The Zunbils are, without a doubt, my favorite Dynasty in CK2 to play, since the challenge of them is unique. Unlike the other pagans, they start Feudal, and are surrounded by the conquest hungry Abassids to the west, and the Eastern Religons of the Indian Subcontinent to the east. Despite that, I often see them last for centuries, managing to take almost all of Afganistan from the Abassids, as well as some chunks from the Indian kingdoms that border them.
Despite this, I still feel that the Zunists are vastly underpowered and underloved. They don't have any unique religous artifacts, they share the Demon Cult with Christians and Jews, they can't raid, and one of their holy sites is located in Egypt, simply because it was a holy spot of another sun god. Even more annoyingly, their special execution descision almost never kills anybody. When they reform, the counts and dukes are still refered to as Chief / High Chief, and their High Priest is just... A High Priest. And in CK2+, they, like all the other Pagan religions when reformed, are a clone of the Caliphate.
My goal for Na Matodinki Lemar (Pashto for The Unconquered Sun) is to:
1) Make reforming the Zunists easier. Not easy, mind you, simply easier, by giving the Zunists the ability to raid and having the holy sites be in atleast reasonably accessible locations.
2) Make playing as the Zunists more rewarding and fun. This includes custom Pagan artifacts for the Zunists, and a few more random event chains, in the vein of the Byzantine Empire Chariot race events. This would include things like the traditional game of Buzkashi, or 'Goat Pulling', where horse-mounted players attempt to place a goat carcass into a goal. Also make the 'Offer Sacrifice to Zun' execution more likely to be fatal / drive the person offered up bonkers.
3) Make Counts / Dukes / High Priest have better titles than 'Chief, High Chief, and High Priest' - Most likely the typical Iranian titles of Marzban and Satrap, and 'Sun Guardian' for the High Priest.
4) Make a reformed Church of Zun have an almost Catholic flavor to it (as opposed to the Islamic flavor that all other Pagans get when reformed), with a College of Cardinals that the next High Priest is chosen from.
5) Give the Zunists their own Demon Cult, one that worships the darkness and shuns the Light of Zun.
6) Since the Zunists, when they reform, are obviously inspired by the Christian churches, give them a Monastic Order, much like the Christian faiths have.
A side note: when I asked a Pashtun coworker if he'd help me translate Unconquered Sun into Pashto, he wanted to know why. When i told him my plans, to make the Zunbils have a better chance in the game, he became VERY excited that people in the west actually know about the Zunbil-Shahs, as he called them.
Thanks for reading this far. I know it was one heck of a read, but I wanted to gauge the interest of the Sub-Forum before I began working on any of these, and see what one people are the most interested in seeing done first.
