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Like I mentioned, Vecihi Hurkus and Nuri Demirag are Turkish aviation pioneers and even Sabiha Gokcen is a product of their dedication on this field. It's unfortunate that there are little sources on these people in English.

In addition to the brief notes I mentioned in a previous post here, you can find some more information from the links below:

Vecihi Hurkus info:
http://www.earlyaviators.com/ehurkus.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vecihi_Hürkuş
http://www.tuncay-deniz.com/ENGLISH/V__HURKUS/v__hurkus.html

Nuri Demirag info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuri_demirag
http://www.tuncay-deniz.com/ENGLISH/N__DEMIRAG/n__demirag.html

You may also want to check out this link for additional information on the history of Turkish aviation industry with very good sources on the models produced in Turkey.
Both certainly were aviation pioneers who had seen active service, based on your info. My main 'problem' with both is that in 1936 they moved on from Military Aviation and it's tactics towards civilian pilot training and aircraft manufacturing. So as a doctrine team they don't seem to be the right fit. If we were covering the post-1951 era (which within CORE we don't) they would make good aircraft manufacturing teams, but not in the 1936-1951 timespan due to the types of planes they produced at that time. Which doesn't mean their contributions weren't important, they just don't match the team setup we have in mind within the mod. Turkey is certainly difficult to model, based on the rapid change the airforce was going through, linked with the scarce information readily available!

I really appreciate your input, in any case! It's been a treat reading up on all of them, for starters.

You are correct about Sabiha Gokcen's popularity, being Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's daughter and all, but that's also due to her role as the first female fighter pilot of the world. She did participate in military action as early as 1936 during the Dersim Revolt in Eastern Turkey. Therefore she's a historic figure in terms of women rights, but I'm not sure how to place her in a tech team or even as a general, as she never got promoted to the rank of a general.
Exactly spot-on! I did read about her military action and being the first female fighter pilot, but never got the impression she was instrumental on a higher level.

On the other hand, she's a great flavor event material. ;)
Always looking for good flavour events. You haven't one lying around somewhere, by any chance? :D

As a last note, I have the feeling that the Turkish Air Force is a little underrepresented in the game, as it is in the case with Turkish IC, metal and energy resources as well as land forces.

Turkish Air Force was the strongest in all of Balkan Peninsula by 1940, until the Germans came. The entire air force consisted of 500 airplanes according to Turkish Air Force official website (also in English).


n737854767_2082707_4992.jpg


Another source (US Air Force Incirlik Base Website):
We already have events covering the PZL licence building and Heinkel purchase, which were the most substantial IIRC. Turkey certainly expanded it's airforce heavily during the late 30s and early 40s. The Turkish air models (and nearly all of the model images) in 0.4.0 are based on the official Air Force website (which I absolutely leeched for good fotos with Turkish markings). So Turkey certainly has received it's fair share of attention lately. :)
 
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Both certainly were aviation pioneers who had seen active service, based on your info. My main 'problem' with both is that in 1936 they moved on from Military Aviation and it's tactics towards civilian pilot training and aircraft manufacturing. So as a doctrine team they don't seem to be the right fit. If we were covering the post-1951 era (which within CORE we don't) they would make good aircraft manufacturing teams, but not in the 1936-1951 timespan due to the types of planes they produced at that time. Which doesn't mean their contributions weren't important, they just don't match the team setup we have in mind within the mod. Turkey is certainly difficult to model, based on the rapid change the airforce was going through, linked with the scarce information readily available!

I really appreciate your input, in any case! It's been a treat reading up on all of them, for starters.
Gothca. The links are still here though, for any other mod to incorporate them if they are looking for additional info on Turkish Aviation between 1933-45.

Always looking for good flavour events. You haven't one lying around somewhere, by any chance? :D
Not yet, not yet! ;) Doesn't mean I'm not thinking on them. If I have some time, I would like to work on a number of Turkish events.

We already have events covering the PZL licence building and Heinkel purchase, which were the most substantial IIRC. Turkey certainly expanded it's airforce heavily during the late 30s and early 40s. The Turkish air models (and nearly all of the model images) in 0.4.0 are based on the official Air Force website (which I absolutely leeched for good fotos with Turkish markings). So Turkey certainly has received it's fair share of attention lately. :)
Good to hear that. So when's the next public release? :D
 
Good to hear that. So when's the next public release? :D
Well, we still have this issue of Germany taking until 1941 or 1942 to take out France, and thus skipping DOWing the USSR. Somehow the Betas consider it to be somewhat of a gamebreaker. :rolleyes: Balancing just takes time (and far more than I had hoped or imagined beforehand). We're slowly getting there, but I guess it will take us a couple of months to get it good to go.
 
Is anyboy of you interested about this thread http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10438998&postcount=575 ?


EDIT

Something about Turkey in WWII

"Armed Forces: In 1938 the Turkish standing army had 20 000 officers and 174 000 men. Military service lasted for three years. In 1939 the Turkish army was administrationally divided into three army inspectorates, nine corps, and one military governorship; the country's armed forces were composed of 20 infantry divisions, three brigades of mountain troops, one fortress brigade, and five cavalry divisions (including two reserve cavalry divisions) - altogether 132 regiments (60 infantry, six mountain troops, 21 cavalry, eight reserve cavalry, 20 field artillery, 10 heavy artillery, and seven fortress artillery). In early 1941 Turkey established 17 corps headquarters, 43 divisions and three independent infantry brigades, two divisions and one independent cavalry brigade, as well as two mechanized divisions. The armed forces were poorly equipped; weapons shipments from Germany, Great Britain, and U.S. did little to improve that condition. Just before the onset of hostilities the Turkish navy underwent a program of expansion and modernization; two submarines were ordered for construction in Germany, two submarines and four destroyers were ordered for construction in U.K. Lesser vessels were also constructed in home shipyards. After Germany delivered one submarine in 1939, the Turkish navy contained 19 naval vessels and they included one armoured ship, one line cruiser, two light cruisers, two torpedo-boats, four destroyers, five submarines, and four other lesser ships (most vessels were obsolete); with a total displacement of 55 775 tonnes (the number of naval personnel stood at 9 200). The real combat value of the navy was insignificant. By the end of WWII, the navy had one battle cruiser, two cruisers, two gunboats, three minesweepers, eight destroyers, 12 submarines, three motor torpedo boats, five minelayers, a surveying vessel, a depot ship, a fleet tug, a collier, and an oiler. By 1940 the Turkish air force was composed of four air regiments (each regiment contained six air companies), and had in possession a total of 370 aircraft (it had 8 500 personnel). Thanks to British and French shipments one more air regiment, along with five independent air wings, was formed in 1941. Shipments of military equipment from Germany replaced the shipments from Allied countries in the same year. Close to the end of the war, two air force divisions were organized; they together contained 15 air wings (or 30 flights). The Turkish armed forces did not participated in any military operations of WWII. "

From http://www.ww2f.com/north-africa-mediterranean/27491-turkey-ww2.html
 
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Some of the Turkish political and military figures of the time.

Ismet Inönü (1884-1973):
230px-Ismet_Inonu_Time_May_19_1941.jpg

To correct a grave error from the vanilla HoI; Ismet Inonu and Mustafa Ismet are the same person. Mustafa is the middle name (less used). So the full name would be Mustafa Ismet Inönü, but Mustafa is almost never used, so you can just use Ismet Inönü. He's an able war veteran, but I doubt he'd be leading any armies himself anytime after 1934 as he's been leading the government as Prime Minister (right hand of President Mustafa Kemal Ataturk). He's elected President of the Republic a week after Ataturk's funeral (November 1938) and stayed in power until 1950. His centrist and isolationist policies kept Turkey neutral throughout the war. Following the end of the war, he transformed Turkey from a single party totalitarian state to a multi-party democracy and joined the USA lead Western coalition, paving the way for a NATO membership in 1952.

Roosevelt_Inonu_Churchill.jpg

Roosevelt, Inonu and Churchill at the Cairo Conference 1943.

ABD-Hat%C4%B1r%C4%B1na-Bast%C4%B1r%C4%B1lan-Pullar.jpg

Ataturk depicted with Washington and Inonu with Roosevelt.

Ataturk-Inonu-Bayar.jpg

First three presidents of Turkey; Ataturk, Ismet Inonu and Celal Bayar.

230px-Sukru_Saracoglu_Time_July_12_1943.jpg

Şükrü Saracoğlu (Above): pro-Nazi, enigmatic Prime Minister of Turkey between 1942-46. Has been part of the cabinet since 1924 (Minister of Education 1924-25, Finance 1927-30, Justice 1933-38, Foreign Affairs 1938-42).

887520090720110954853.jpg

Recep Peker (Above): war veteran, pro-Axis, fascist member of the cabinet and later Prime Minister. He stated that "liberals are traitors to the nation" and strongly opposed multi party elections.

%C5%9E%C3%BCkr%C3%BC_Kaya.jpg

Şükrü Kaya (Above): pro-Soviet, left wing politician, Interior Minister.

tevfik_rustu_aras.jpg

Tevfik Rüştü Aras (Above): pro-Soviet, left wing politician, Foreign Minister.

Field Marshall Fevzi Cakmak: pro-Axis, conservative military strongman and Chief of Armed Forces (Jul 12, 1922–Jan 12, 1944) - more than two decades.

175px-AtaturkwithFevziCakmak.jpg

Marshall Fevzi Çakmak and Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

images

General Fahrettin Altay (Above): right wing centrist military strongman, war veteran and Chief of Army 1944-45.


General Asım Gündüz: war veteran, centrist and 3rd strong man in military until 1945.


Kazim_Karabekir_HouseSpeaker.jpg

General Kazim Karabekir (Above): former great war hero, conservative, disgraced politician (his name was involved in an assassination attempt against Ataturk in 1924 and was forced to resign from all duties). When Ataturk passed away, Inonu rehabilitated him and invited back to politics. Speaker of Parliament (1946-48).

ali_fuat_cebesoy02.jpg

General Ali Fuat Cebesoy (Above): war hero who shared same fate with Karabekir. Was reinstated in 1939 and became Minister (1939-47); Speaker of Parliament (1948-50). He's centrist liberal conservative and pro-West / Allies.

Rauf_orbay1.jpg

Rauf Orbay (Above): war hero, naval commander and liberal conservative politician. Shared same fate with Karabekir and Cebesoy during the Ataturk assassination trial and was forced to leave politics. Reinstated in 1939 and joined Parliament. He was pro-American / British. Served as Turkish Ambassador to London during WWII.

rsaydam.gif

Refik Saydam (Above): pro-Nazi Prime Minister (1939-42). He studied medicine to become a field doctor and has implemented serious health reforms during his term as the Minister of Health.

images

Numan Menemencioğlu (Above): pro-Nazi Foreign Minister (1942-44)


e3360a83ad2db594_landing

Marshall Fevzi Cakmak (C) presiding over a meeting of his general staff incl. (L-R) Gen. Veysel Univar, Gen. Asim Gunduz, Gen. Sabit Noyan & Gen. Hakki Bese (Ankara - 1940).

86387f7c87d052c5_landing

Turkish Gen. Feyzi Menguc, Command of the 15th Div. of the Turkish 3rd Army, w. Col. Kukneddin Aslan, Commander of the Samsun Brigade & other unident. staff members, in the field (Samsun - 1940).

e2003a7a87ef9998_landing

Gen Muntaz Actay (seated-C), Commander of Special Turkish Army Corps, discussing military strategies w. Gen. Kazim Orbay's staff as they study a map, at 3rd Army HQ (Erzurum - 1940).

27b56992ee4d9003_landing

Brigadier Gen. Iskender Ertemer (R), Commandant of the Turkish Military School, conferring w. his Chief of Staff Col. Hayri Aytepe (C) as they study map in his office (Ankara - 1940).

96ec86d0759caef5_landing

Ismet Inonu, Pres. of Turkey (L) conferring w. his Prime Minister Refik Saydam at the Presidential Palace (Ankara - 1940).

a501593d0b131bdd_landing

Portrait of Ismet Inonu, Pres. of Turkey, perusing the bks. in his extensive private library as his ornate desk dominates the foregrd. at his home (Ankara - 1940).

f0c88a9aea66907d_landing

Turkish people voting.

1e7b358dc3783cfc_landing

Turkish Armed Forces parading during the National Day.

d803431e4e6393b1_landing

Ataruk's Youth Boy Scouts parading.

a423ff3665d368ac_landing

Admiral Bernhard H. Bieri and Admiral of the Turkish Navy Mehmet Ali Ulgen (R), making a toast while forging an alliance against USSR (Istanbul - 1947).
 
Commanders of the Submarine Fleet:

Captain Ziyaeddin Özel
1935-1936 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Hüsnü Gökdenizer
1936-1938 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)
could be active till 1950 but he resigned over a politically charged case against communists (he was not being charged, but he was the military judge).

Commodore Said Halman
1938-1941 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)
could be active till 1950's but I don't have info

Commodore Sadık Altıncan
1941-1944 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)
active until 1957 and Chief of Navy between 1955-57.

Commodore Rıfat Özdeş
1944-1946 and 1948-1949 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Burhanettin Erilkun
1946-1947 and 1949-1950 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Fahri Korutürk
1950-1953 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Tevfik Sargut
1955-1957 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Afif Tuğrul
1957-1959 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Vehbi Ziya Dümer
1959-1960 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Commodore Ferit Denizmen
1960-1961 (Commander of Submarine Fleet)

Note that commodore is navy equivalent of Brigadier General (one star admiral) above Nav. Captain and under Rear Admiral. The rank for the position of Submarine Fleet Command was commodore back in those days (Now Rear Admiral). But most of these admirals kept on moving forward and thus were promoted to higher ranks later on.

Commodore has one star
Rear Admiral has two stars
Vice Admiral has three stars
Admiral has four stars

Turkish Submarines:

Code:
Service Dates:               Names of Submarines:
06.09.1886-1910            Abdülhamit
04.08.1887-1910            Abdülmecit
10.11.1915-1918            Müstecip Onbaşı
06.09.1928-1948            TCG I.İnönü
09.06.1928-1948            TCG II.İnönü
06.11.1931-1949            TCG Sakarya
06.11.1931-1949            TCG Dumlupınar
29.12.1936-1949            TCG Gür
05.06.1939-1958            TCG Saldıray
19.05.1939-1942            TCG Atılay
15.01.1946-1958            TCG Yıldıray
09.05.1942-1958            TCG Oruçreis
25.05.1942-1958            TCG Muratreis
19.01.1946-1958            TCG Burakreis
23.05.1948-12.08.1972     TCG I.İnönü
23.05.1948-20.11.1973     TCG II.İnönü
23.05.1948-12.12.1975     TCG Sakarya
23.05.1948-12.12.1975     TCG Gür
16.11.1950-04.05.1972     TCG Çanakkale
16.11.1950-04.04.1953     TCG Dumlupınar
07.08.1954-04.05.1972     TCG Preveze
23.10.1954-04.05.1972     TCG Cerbe
17.10.1958-05.04.1983     TCG Turgutreis
18.03.1960-20.11.1973     TCG Pirireis
20.04.1960-09.10.1980     TCG Hızırreis
30.11.1970-09.08.2001     TCG Muratreis
14.12.1970-01.05.1996     TCG Burakreis
01.07.1971-15.09.1986     TCG Oruçreis
02.07.1971-13.09.2000     TCG Uluçalireis
30.06.1972-23.12.1983     TCG Dumlupınar
30.06.1972-13.07.1999     TCG Cerbe
31.07.1972-20.03.1986     TCG Preveze
18.08.1972-17.08.1998     TCG I.İnönü
21.11.1973-02.09.1996     TCG II.İnönü
21.11.1973-21.01.1998     TCG Çanakkale
29.07.1975-                  TCG Atılay           (In Service)
23.10.1975-                  TCG Saldıray        (In Service)
20.07.1978-                  TCG Batıray         (In Service)
08.02.1980-13.08.2004     TCG Pirireis
30.07.1979-                  TCG Yıldıray         (In Service)
30.09.1983-09.02.2004     TCG Hızırreis
17.11.1983-                  TCG Doğanay        (In Service)
21.07.1989-                  TCG Dolunay         (In Service)
01.01.1994-                  TCG Preveze         (In Service)
19.12.1996-                  TCG Sakarya         (In Service)
22.05.1997-                  TCG 18 Mart        (In Service)
17.08.1998-                  TCG Anafartalar     (In Service)
09.07.2003-                  TCG Gür             (In Service)
26.07.2005                   TCG Çanakkale       (In Service)
15.02.2006                   TCG Burakreis       (In Service)
22.06.2007                   TCG I.İnönü         (In Service)

atilay05.jpg
 
Great stuff! Do you mind if we include this in 1964?

Also, Tunch, could you come up with a couple of names for hypothetical Turkish exosuit divisions? We'd need them for the mod.
 
Great stuff! Do you mind if we include this in 1964?

Also, Tunch, could you come up with a couple of names for hypothetical Turkish exosuit divisions? We'd need them for the mod.
Feel free to include them in any mod.

BTW, What's an exosuit division? :eek:o
 
Feel free to include them in any mod.

BTW, What's an exosuit division? :eek:o

naamloos1sv.jpg

(WIP shot)

That's an exosuit. Basically 1964 will feature exosuit infantry as a late-game secret tech, along with other plausible technologies like UCAVs and railgun cannons. Say, aren't you interested in helping us out? We're planning on Turkey to play an important rule during the third balkan wars in our mod. If you want, you can drop by our forums

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Team_TGG/index.php?&&CODE=01&CookieDate=1
 
I believe the word ''exoskeleton'' literally translates as ''dış kabuk'' which makes no sense in Turkish (as a military term, that is.). Could you explain it's purposes a tad more so that I can come up with a name ?

As for UCAV, ''1. Insansiz Savas Ucagi Filosu'' is pretty good.
 
How about "Zirhli Piyade Tumeni" (Armored Infantry Division)? Sounds pretty plausible to me. :)
 
How about "Zirhli Piyade Tumeni" (Armored Infantry Division)? Sounds pretty plausible to me. :)

Yeah, that's the term we use in most languages (since English is the only language in which the word exosuit exists :D). Armoured Infantry, for German we use Panzerinfanterie, for Dutch Pantserinfanterie. But, as I said before, if any of you native Turks want to come help expand Turkey's modding in 1964, feel free to drop by

Thanks for the data btw!
 
I'm no Turkish expert, but I thought I could throw the teams I discovered/created as an expansion to those provided in the base game (to provide a TUR player with some more (if potentially far-fetched) research options).

Aside from the University of Istanbul and TRF(which I believe I made up, just so there was a rocket-manufacturing option), I found:

Turkiye Atom Enerjisi Kurumu
(or TAEK, I believe it's the Turkish Atomic Energy Commission)

Unfortunately, it was created in 1956, so it's out of the scope of vanilla and doomsday, but may be of use in other ways.


Sivas Cer Atelyesi
(Turkish Railway - now TÜDEMSAŞ)

Founded in 1939, actually started creating its own locomotives in '53.


Ankara Üniversitesi
(The University of Ankara)

Officially founded in 1946 (but had operating faculties previously).
 
A potentially good event could be scripted on German Jews arriving to Turkey before the War's break and contributing to Turkish science, law and economy.

Jews in Turkey during WWII
A new era of Turkish assistance to Jewish refugees began in the early 1930's, when Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his Minister of Education, Hasan Ali Yücel, took advantage of Hitler's dismissal of Jewish educators and scientists to bring hundreds of them to Turkey, where they contributed significantly to the development of Turkish universities and scientific establishments as well as to the fine arts and music before and during World War II.

After the establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1923, the staff as well as the programs of Istanbul University were suspected in Ankara, the new capital, of resistance to republican reform. Finally, in 1933 a complete overhaul of the academic programs and a purge of the staff brought it in line with republican thinking. This era of reestablishment was facilitated by the influx of large numbers of German and other European scholars, many of them Jewish, fleeing Nazi intimidation or persecution. The refugee scholars were especially active in the fields of law and economics, but other programs, including physics, medicine and chemistry, benefited from a substantial European presence.

University of Istanbul
Turkey’s system of higher education including medical education was thoroughly revised when the University Reform Law No. 2252, was passed on 31 May 1933. It abolished the İstanbul Dar-ül Fünun and founded the İstanbul University. On 31 July 1933, the Dar-ül Fünun was officially closed by government decree as a means of cancelling all existing faculty contracts. The very next day Istanbul University was opened using Dar-ül Fünun’s physical plant with a small fraction of its original faculty and over 30 world renowned émigré German professors who were invited by the government. In 1933, Distinguished American Richard Courant and Nobel laureate James Franck were asked by the Rockefeller Foundation to assess the status of Istanbul University. On 25 October 1933 Courant filed their joint report. It says in part: “Among the Turkish officials and circles interested in the cultural progress of the country we encountered a decided wish to create a promising scientific center in Istanbul, which should contribute to the development of higher education in Turkey.” An internal Rockefeller Foundation Memorandum observed: “The new developments in Turkey should be followed closely and sympathetically. The transplantation of so many eminent German scholars in Istanbul cannot but have far-reaching repercussions. The present transformation of Turkey offers so many problems of economic, social and political significance as to provide a fruitful field of research.” A year later, the Associate Director of Rockefeller Foundation’s European Office, R. A. Lambert, was sent to Istanbul to assess the situation on the ground. In his Diary, an entry dated Friday, 16 February 1934, recognizes that “there is no doubt that Mustapha Kemal [Ataturk] and his Ministers of Hygiene and Education are determined to have in Istanbul, in the shortest possible time, a first class University . . . that will command the respect of the West.” According to a contemporary Turkish parliamentarian, the “Turkish government signed contracts with a number of professors and accepted to pay them a salary well exceeding that of professors of Turkish origin. The purpose of the Turkish government was to upgrade the academic level of Istanbul University to that of Western European universities.”
 
I'm adding to the necrothreading!

Yeah, that's the term we use in most languages (since English is the only language in which the word exosuit exists :D).

You're wrong here, English isn't the only one. I'm sure the word exists in Russian :D