Turkish Air Doctrine Teams - anyone speaks Turkish?

[kingsword]

Hey there, I'm another Turk and would like to try translating the knowledge that's been given on the Turkish Air Forces website if you require it. However, I need to say that I cannot find anyone like you want to know: A person that influenced Turkish air doctrine in that era by himself. As Turkey didn't participate in any air combat during the period, I'm not sure if we actually forged any of our own. I'd still say that the commanders of the air forces would be the closest thing you'd get.

I assume that you want to make a research team after such a person, am I right?

You can also PM me if you need anytime, I'd be glad to be of any help.

 

[Hagar]

Hey there, I'm another Turk and would like to try translating the knowledge that's been given on the Turkish Air Forces website if you require it. However, I need to say that I cannot find anyone like you want to know: A person that influenced Turkish air doctrine in that era by himself. As Turkey didn't participate in any air combat during the period, I'm not sure if we actually forged any of our own. I'd still say that the commanders of the air forces would be the closest thing you'd get.

I assume that you want to make a research team after such a person, am I right?

You can also PM me if you need anytime, I'd be glad to be of any help.

Correct, we do want to make Air doctrine tech teams for them, as the current ones suspicially are rendering no hits at all when googling. Given that I'd probably have to say that anything will be an improvement...
As to air combat there was some brief clashing in the Dersim riot, though I doubt it would contribute much in the sense of doctrines or such. As such I personally am inclined to include Turkish fighter pilots who went abroad for training in the era 1930-1950 (probably just during the '30's would suffice). As a close second I would go for people heavily involved in the training itself (hence Uçaner as a candidate), and if needed air force commanders. If you can provide some background info on any of those that would be highly appreciated. If you have photos of them you would make my day. The areas of expertise probably can be a representation of the actual types of planes Turkey bought during the era (bomber focus, fighter focus, balanced etc.).

I have some info on Uçaner (including an image of the late 1930s - which is in fact used in the current Turkish lineup graphically), but too little to rate him or give him any areas of expertise. On other plausible candidates I simply have no info whatsoever...

 

[kingsword]

Unfortunately we've yet to put much of our knowledge on the internet, it's a slower process than expected. And those are not even translated most of the time. Yet I still cannot find any info about individual pilots or trainers of the WW2 era. As the Turkish Air Force Academy was only founded in 1951, it was operating under the name of Air Academy (without the 'Force') and trained graduates of War Academy. However, I was able to find some pictures on this page , covering the period of 23-44.

And according to this page, (with colored pictures) the first Chief of Air Force was Zeki Doğan who received the position in 1944. Before that time, it seems that air forces didn't operate as a separate force. Based on his bio on the site, he worked for the separation as a commander. As for Uçaner, he was assigned as the Air Academy (there is some inconsistent naming but it should be safe to say Air Force Academy based on how they translated it themselves, a more accurate translation would be Air Battle School) commander between 39-44. Their website unfortunately has no record of the school's commanders and I couldn't find any info regarding this.

So take your pick I guess, however Zeki Doğan seemed more likely to influence the doctrines as he played a part in the foundation of the force as a separate entity. Unfortunately I'm mostly in the dark like you as well, republic era military history is mostly uncharted territory even for us until Korean War. I can try to translate those bio's if necessary but they don't give much insight about doctrines, most are just educational info or assignments.

 

[kingsword]

As for the planes purchased.. There are some Junkers pilots' pictures on the first page I linked. The page also tells that during the early 40's, number of planes reached 500 and supposedly was the greatest force in the Balkans. (countries without taking Luftwaffe into consideration) There would be an emphasis on fighters for base defense purposes as the policy during İnönü's administration was to avoid the war at all costs.

On this page, there's a detailed list of planes that were deployed between 23-50 with numbers and further info that can be accessed when clicked on. Looks like just you wanted to have.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

I'd think we could possiblly use both Doğan and Uçaner as possible tech teams. Doğan could be the more organizational onesince he is associated with the Independent Air Arm doctrine while Uçaner could be set up more for Fighter Focus type work. We need baylox's opinion here I think.

mm

 

[Hagar]

That sounds like a plan...

 

[baylox]

Sounds good to me too. Turkey should have a team matching Foreign Purchase rather than actual dotrines from the start, though (could still be Doğan), and then activate a more appropriate-specialized team when Policy Change or Independent Air Arm is researched (along with Uçaner).

Dec, since I'm slightly handicapped can you look at what might be suitable and upload a revised tech team file for me?

 

[Hagar]

Sounds good to me too. Turkey should have a team matching Foreign Purchase rather than actual dotrines from the start, though (could still be Doğan), and then activate a more appropriate-specialized team when Policy Change or Independent Air Arm is researched (along with Uçaner).

Dec, since I'm slightly handicapped can you look at what might be suitable and upload a revised tech team file for me?

Don't leave out the graphics department...

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

Ok, could Doğan be acceptable for both the Foreign Purchase and the Organizational techs? Otherwise we're going to need someone else for the initial Foreigh Purchase based tech team. There seems to be a good bit of overlap between them. Also a little more information re: what he did prior to 1944 would be useful. Then we could activate Uçaner based on continued AD research. I'd have him come available in either path. Probablly with IAA or CADAA would be best considering the TUR tech position.

mm

 

[baylox]

I don't see it as a problem having Doğan in both roles, unless he historically didn't have such influence before 1944 (we can have him in that role until proven otherwise). If he didn't, we can just have an "Air Ministry" team for Foreign Purchase techs.

 

[Hagar]

I don't see it as a problem having Doğan in both roles, unless he historically didn't have such influence before 1944 (we can have him in that role until proven otherwise). If he didn't, we can just have an "Air Ministry" team for Foreign Purchase techs.

I don't think he made it to being the first Chief of the Air Force without having some clout beforehand, and the ability to pull strings there. So I'd certainly go for Doğan for the whole era, unless we find evidence to the contrary.

 

[kingsword]

I translated this from Zeki Doğan's bio: (I did my best to translate military terms correctly, ask about any part you have a doubt but I think we have several different generalship ranks)

Joined War Academy in 1913. Due to war conditions, he was promoted to cavalry lieutenant in 1914, on his second year in academy. He was platoon commander in several cavalry units during the war between 14-18. He fell prisoner to English and remained in a PoW camp in Egypt between 18-19. He was released in 1919 and returned to Istanbul.

In 1919, he traveled to Anatolia to join nationalist forces. He served in several different cavalry units as company and battalion commander until 1924. He attended aviation classes between 24-25.

He worked in air units and headquarters until 1940. He participated in Ağrı Operation as the Diyarbakır 3rd Airplane (obsolete military abbreviation, I guess it's airplane) battalion commander. After 1st Airplane Regiment commandeering, he was promoted to brigadier general and was assigned as commander of 1st Airplane Brigade and National Defense Ministry undersecretary in succession. He was promoted to major general in 1942. He struggled for the foundation of Turkish Air Forces and became the first commander of it in 1944. He was promoted to lieutenant general in 1945 and full general in 1948 during his post, serving until his leave in 1950. In the same year, he joined High Military Council as a member. He retired in 1951.