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I'm not sure you can make peace what with all the past baggage, historically.
Doing so would require things that the Kemalists would NEVER do willingly.
This kind of thing is one of the reasons I like Victoria-2. Repression of the sort you are doing has long term consequences...and really solves nothing unless you are willing to deal with the core / root issues.
My most fun failed game was a hyper-aggressive colonizing Portugal that built a decent sized African Empire...only to see it devolve into massive communist and nationalist uprisings because Portugal would never allow the locals voting rights and no matter how well the country provided for the people economically...as long as they were 'less than' Portuguese, there was no solution outside of letting the colonies go.
For bigger nations, you can just use the military to suppress the revolts...but for Portugal, the loyal military is much smaller than the military recruited from the colonies...so eventually most of the army joins the rebels, because the army isn't loyal to the government either.
Very realistic.
Its under control...for now. Unfortunately, it's burning up enough of my already small pool of cigliian factories that I am redcued to slowly buikding one thing at half pace at a time. The industrial strategy postion plus removal of debt debuffs still helps a lot with research and resource extraction etx, but taking this route has slowed Turkey's development in a different way.
Basically, I'm using almost everything I have to service the debt, so am dependant on those foreign investment missions to build up my country. Which is OK for now but no idea for how long the powers that be will keep investing for.
One thing Turkey 'has going for it' is the regime and public appetite for the action that would permentantly remove such issues from various regions. It's just that the game can't openly discuss it, and I can't write about it.
But what happens going down the focus paths suggests that either the Kemalists have made peace with these groups after beating them up, or those various police actions were even more brutal than portrayed.
Likewise, it is rarher obvious what will happen should Turkey ever get back into Arabia or other parts of the Middle East, and mamage to maintain their authority there.
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This is probably the truth. That's other way in Vic2 to handle this problem...you go full on evil and do things not 'intended' by Paradox...
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Yes...there won't be any 'well, at least Scandinavia ended up being a rather nice place to live for everyone in it' vibe to soften the actions taken this time.
Turkey may well end the AAR a prosperous (ish) modern nation state with a certain degree of democracy, accountability, progressive secular development and a decent enough human development index score but the costs are going to be great if we make it, and it won't be for everyone who lives there.
And, of course, it could all end for naught at the hands of the Nazis, Soviets, or even the British or Americans depending on how things go.
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...all of whom have their own ways of ensuring that the benefits don't accrue to everyone living in the land either.
Man, humanity can be a real drag sometimes.
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Indeed. There are basically no good options for the Middle East, short of a major ideological shift in Turkey or Iran, that then sticks, or a pretty gigantic revolution in Arabia, and one or all of them joing forces to try to help out themsevles and everyone else.
Weirdly, money wouldn't actually be a problem after the 30s (or the 10s for Iran) but everything else is stacked against them.
We might get a version of that in this run, but it's just as likely we all end up fighting each other for resources to sell to the West.
Will follow along. How quickly do you think you can buy the debt down with this route? Before 1939 and the war kicks off?
I think we must be on the last few steps, because this seems really expensive. At least, I hope we're coming to the end because otherwise I'm not going to get much developed in the next 2 and a half years...
If there are a lot more steps, I'm going to pause and try and build up my civilian industry to pay for it. Unless these foreign investment options do a good job of covering for me.
It does make me wonder what happens if you dont do anything with the debt at all, ignore the debuffs and build normally instead. Do the Nazis take on the debt council after the fall of france and hold it over turkey, or does it simply cancel as a malus?
It's a pretty interesting mechnic so far, adversely impacts the very early game...and looks like Greece and maybe a few other countries have it too. It's good for a challange or a multi player run, at least so far.
Glorious Turkish Republic is glorious! Yay to the Atatürk! Down with the Colonial Scum!
No, no. At this point, we're still saying colonisation of the middle east is very bad! The colonial people's must be freed!
Later on, when we're doing it, it'll be very good! Then the colonial scum will get what's coming to them!
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Very good first ‘action chapter’. Enjoyed the coverage and style. And some of the ironic/acerbic observations there and in the later comments.
I know, I know, the neutrality grandfather clause doesn’t run out till 1945, just a jolly jape.
I liked the ‘in other words’ bon mots there very much
Glad at least they spell his name correctly in HOI4. I felt obliged to stick with the in game spelling in TT. Will he (or some other wannabe Maginot) look to build some fortifications at least on that side in the coming years, just in case the neutrality path is compromised (probably by rampant Nazis in the early 40s) later on?
Perhaps a full-blown alliance later on?
I know, I know, the neutrality grandfather clause doesn’t run out till 1945, just a jolly jape.A good OTL policy to emulate.
I get a feeling of ‘correction’ here along the lines of how it was practiced in ‘The Shining’!
I liked the ‘in other words’ bon mots there very muchAgreed.
Here we go - the Red Unholy Shotgun Wedding Alliance Agreement beckons!
Yes it was.
Interesting thing with all this focus tree stuff is you get to play quite a rich internal game within a neutral rubric rather just invading neighbours to give something to do or running the clock at high speed while nothing much happens.
Always!
All the accents and special characters too. Which is nice for historical accuracy. For some strange reason, the Turkish character options so far are all pretty on point, which certainly is far from a given in this game series. The only oddness is similar to the British army character options (aka they're all people from the middle of the war onwards rather than 1936).
But we have already seen in other works how wonky the HOI4 character selection is, so Turkey had some proper care and attention put to it.
Perhaps a full-blown alliance later on?
Well, the get out clause still applies. If someone does attack me, all bets are off because I have to try and survive.
Problem is, all three big factions have a good chance of attacking me before or during ww2 so...eh...
I get a feeling of ‘correction’ here along the lines of how it was practiced in ‘The Shining’!
Probably wasn't that gentle.
In abstract, and the OTL script, these are actually pretty good mission statements. Unfortunately, it's 1930s Turkey saying them, which means take with large pinches of salt. And of course, I'm controlling the Republic, so more dashes of salt are called for.
We are making salt soup, here.
My first choice for the second in the series was Australia. But unfortunately, they have exceedingly little to do, and are even weaker than Turkey is. The hats are wonderful of course but the only interesting thing that occurred in my entire historical test run with them was New Zealand having a messy independence from the UK and eventually turning fascist and trying to take us over.
Australia ended the game in charge of the British south east Asian empire, and all the Pacific territories, plus new Zealand...so a pretty decent set up for the post war world (alboet with quite a bit of colonial atrocity set up) but very boring.
There's no one who can really threaten Australia around, and if anyone can, it's because they've defeated most of the rest of the world and thus we are going to lose anyway.
Here we go - the Red Unholy Shotgun Wedding Alliance Agreement beckons!
Well...they threatened us into a compromise that favours them, which I suppose is a start.
Well...i thought it was.
Yeah, this is a pretty good way of doing a 'neutral' nation. Sweden did have quite a few options, to be fair, but a lot of nations are designed around the PC taking over a large empire, or other non historical routes.
Turkey gives you a ton of options, and it threads those options together very well, as we'll see when we get to the end of the first focus tree choice and it all links back up together.
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You also appear to have forgotten the soup, thus far it has been almost entirely salt.
I am reminded of a classicist commenting on the movie 300 saying it was entirely historically accurate, in the sense that while almost none of it was correct it was exactly the kind of ludicrously exaggerated propaganda tale that a Greek of the time would tell. This has that feel, almost nothing the narrator says is true but it has the attitude a Turkish propaganda piece of the time would have, so it is a success in that sense.
To address the earlier comment naturally I would like to see this end in a wonderful failure, Turkey getting annexed and the entire leadership convicted for their almost unimaginable crime. But this is HOI4 where defeat is very difficult unless you really try to fail, so I'm not getting my hopes up.
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The Turkish government takes the view that you do not need much soup when you have so much salt.
Having started the game and seen the multiple war crimes buttons, I began to understand we would need to heavily lean into the psychopathic delusion the Swedish narrator occasionally strayed into.
...
In general, it appears HOI4 takes the propoganda of each nation at face value and applies it as facts on the ground. This of course makes fascism extremely powerful, the colonial empires very stable, and a lot of ww2 policies, wonder weapons and reforms extraordinarily succesful.
Well, 1937 reveals the horrific problems the decisions made in 1936 threw up. Namely that I have signed up for democracy whilst having an intensely paranoid and authoritarian government in place, my armed forces are committed to brutalising the south east rather than defending the country, and I have gone from having a foreign debt council hampering our economy to being totally dependent on foreign investment because my own resources are entirely focused on servicing our unplayable amounts of debt.
I am now relatively sure that we will not have a functioning, capable and large enough army by September 1939.
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That does explain a great deal and does fit what we know of Paradox's legendary approach to research and historical fidelity. I tentatively endorse this theory.
So there is some hope for a happy ending? Not much obviously, but some.
Certainly explains the facism stuff, but also helps explain the other European powers too. And america being the unironic freedom brigade.
If someone invades, I'm definitely going to lose very quickly and be divided up between axis powers or the Soviets, and then presumably fought over again by the allies, axis and Soviets later on depending on who owns what.
Based off past games, the main two to watch out for are rhe Soviets (obvious) and Italians (they of the ambitious but suicidal naval landings).
Arguably the Italians invading and making a mess leading to allied takeover and Marshal planning would be pretty good for Turkey (better than what I'm going to do to it).
Or the Soviets take over and they push to the Gulf...which wouldn't be good for the world.