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Turtledove's Settling Accounts Mod

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Krupp has a long tradition of excellence though, whereas anything the CS made would be relatively new and without a niche. The CS, also, has an agrarian culture, unlike germany or the USA..Exotic science especially is a cripple for them, but i have to say I cant see their techs being that good, with notable exceptions being doctrinal and small arms, and perhaps naval. In air power, artillery, tanks and the sort, i'd think they'd be mediocure, with very poor rocketry, atomics and the sort. Weaker industrial base then the other major powers ( a bit lower then UK's, i think) and with an anti-industrial culture..i just see that the south couldent cope with the US in things like panzer development. Now, the south may see the need for tanks and get them whereas the north doesent, but that has nothing to do with capability to persue them.

Belive me, I LOVE the south to a fanatical point, so im not saying this out of anything but love and honesty. I can see Tredegar Iron Works, their oldest and most venerable tech team, being level 9 with the (pardon me, i know the symbols, not the names) Wrench, Tires, Artillery, Industry and Training as its symbols.

Is there any way to modify morale? I belive the CSA and Deseret should have especially high morale. (Deseret's up to ludicrous levels, i wouldent discount 200%..)


So in conclusion, I love the CSA, but id like to keep their industry realistic, and their tech teams. Id say the CSA beating the USA in this war is a longer shot then germany beating USA OTL, and thats how it should feel playing as them. A thrill, too. (And Playing the US would be fun also, because theres war with the japanese, UK, France and Russia to deal with even if you beat CSA.

(one thing i forgot..CSA's closed society under Freedom means they get 20-25% bonus to IC, which is quite large, and helps to offset the US's larger ic..)
 
I'm looking foward to this mod, any word on where and when it will be available?

I have a suggestion for the Confederate fighter names. We all know the basic fighter should be called the Hound Dog like in the book but how about Bloodhound for a improved or advanced model. Reading the book I just thought Bloodhound sounded cooler and more appropriate.
 
Baron Jukaga said:
I'm looking foward to this mod, any word on where and when it will be available?

I have a suggestion for the Confederate fighter names. We all know the basic fighter should be called the Hound Dog like in the book but how about Bloodhound for a improved or advanced model. Reading the book I just thought Bloodhound sounded cooler and more appropriate.
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as an addendum to that for the names..we already have the Lee and the Stuart to draw on. I suggest continuing this with the Forrest, and as a late war (advanced im thinking) the Patton?

edit: this would be for tanks.
 
Lettow,

I can concede the point on tech teams not being the best, but one thing I'm drawing on is the fact that in Turtledove's timeline the arms don't seem to be that mediocre. I know they've had time to build up, but in approximately the same amount of time (I'm talking about actual development time, a little bit after the last war and a little bit before the new one vs. the CSA's build-up before the new war), both sides developed medium armour of about the same quality.


May I ask how this sounds:
BP of '39 infantry to CSA
BP of basic medium armour to CSA
BP of basic motorized infantry to CSA
BP of basic CAS to CSA
BP of basic fighter to CSA
All of first tier CAS doctrines researched
1st TAC doctrine, BP's of the following doctrines to CSA
German 1936 land-doctrine level

In terms of tech teams in most areas, Italy could be a model. The CSA wouldn't be as hard up as China, but it would only have a few strong teams in its strengths. As you say, Tredegar would be its super-Fiat. I'd also suggest an Opel, a Macchi, a Breda, a Bloem & Voss, and maybe a skill 5 Fiat-type for switch-hitting.

With only a single skill 9, a player would have to pick and choose what his focus would be, whereas he could stay a little bit ahead of the historical year with his medium-skilled teams. If he wanted to research leg infantry, tanks, and motorized infantry all at the same time, he won't have all specializations for every tech. He may be using a skill 4 team with only two specialties.

For industry, I'm still looking forward to hearing what the existing industry balance is. I was imagining a CSA with 100 to 120 base IC to a USA with 225 to 240 base IC.
 
Brasidas said:
Lettow,

I can concede the point on tech teams not being the best, but one thing I'm drawing on is the fact that in Turtledove's timeline the arms don't seem to be that mediocre. I know they've had time to build up, but in approximately the same amount of time (I'm talking about actual development time, a little bit after the last war and a little bit before the new one vs. the CSA's build-up before the new war), both sides developed medium armour of about the same quality.


May I ask how this sounds:
BP of '39 infantry to CSA
BP of basic medium armour to CSA
BP of basic motorized infantry to CSA
BP of basic CAS to CSA
BP of basic fighter to CSA
All of first tier CAS doctrines researched
1st TAC doctrine, BP's of the following doctrines to CSA
German 1936 land-doctrine level

In terms of tech teams in most areas, Italy could be a model. The CSA wouldn't be as hard up as China, but it would only have a few strong teams in its strengths. As you say, Tredegar would be its super-Fiat. I'd also suggest an Opel, a Macchi, a Breda, a Bloem & Voss, and maybe a skill 5 Fiat-type for switch-hitting.

With only a single skill 9, a player would have to pick and choose what his focus would be, whereas he could stay a little bit ahead of the historical year with his medium-skilled teams. If he wanted to research leg infantry, tanks, and motorized infantry all at the same time, he won't have all specializations for every tech. He may be using a skill 4 team with only two specialties.

For industry, I'm still looking forward to hearing what the existing industry balance is. I was imagining a CSA with 100 to 120 base IC to a USA with 225 to 240 base IC.
Click to expand...


Thats spot-on perfect. Agreement is reached!
 
Oh, one other suggestion I'd like to re-iterate. Skipping the machine tools techs (which would still have to be researched), perhaps the CSA could receive the root assembly line tech outright (not just a BP).

This would allow the player to crash-research the applied assembly line techs and start cranking out its units at max speed ~fall '38.
 
Brasidas said:
Oh, one other suggestion I'd like to re-iterate. Skipping the machine tools techs (which would still have to be researched), perhaps the CSA could receive the root assembly line tech outright (not just a BP).

This would allow the player to crash-research the applied assembly line techs and start cranking out its units at max speed ~fall '38.
Click to expand...

I dont know about all the assembly lines, but i think vehicle is definetely justified.
 
I'm suggesting just the "branching" one. Small arms, vehicles, etc would have to be researched. Starting on 1 Jan '36, it would take until mid- to late '38 in order to research any of them. And it would tie up tech teams.

You'd be able to do some decent serial runs at the cost of tying up much of your research capability for the early game.
 
SITREP REPORT 1:

Working On: finishing CS Leaders, finishing Trigs, finishing tech teams/ lvls, unit placements especially for AH and OE, going over IC for every major country

Already Finished:: Countries with defined borders, ministers, types of governments


Special Note: Besides the Rememberance, does anyone have the names of the other US carriers?


To Baron: I aim for a release of this mod on June 22nd (the day Barbarossa happened in real life/ Blackbeard happened in Victorious Opposition). BTW stop reading my mind because I have the Bloodhound as the last propeller fighter model.

Lettow I put Tred Rifles at tech lvl 8 (1 more then Mauser) while I have "Birmingham Ironworks" at lvl 9 .

CS Navy will get control over 1 GW Battleship, 2 GW Heavy Cruisers, and a couple GW Destroyers that GB gives...in Submarine power, CS has a great advantage in and will have medium submarines by '38...CS gets rocketry from it's allies during the war...Tanks/Airpower are mediocre while CS Artillery is a bit advanced due to Featherson's interest in it.

Going on the Stuka's on history timeline, the CS shuld have the Asskickers researched up in '35 with full production in '36. In fighters, the US = CS in fighter advancement. And in doctrines, CS shuld be at the same lvl as Germans in 1936.

BTW I have the plebiscite trigger down to "workable", when the box pops up, I still can't get the text to work properly. While it will say "Plebisicite or War" at the top, the description will be "EVENT_DESC_2290"...very frustrating just to talk about.
 
Good to hear, Omega!

As you've seen from Lettow's and my posts, there's been some questions popping up.

What is the current balance of IC between USA and CSA?

You've posted about two high skill tech teams. Are you planning to include a plethora of high skill, multi-specialty teams like Germany? (Btw Mausser is skill 8 as of 1.2)

Are you planning on having GB hand rocketry BP's by convincing them to research rockets or are you including an event?

Do you have any thoughts on our posts beyond dumping the early CAS doctrines?
 
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Given how useless subs are in HoI2, what should be the state of the Confederate Navy? While the USN should be much stronger in heavy hitters like Battleships and Carriers, hell in cruisers and destroyers for that matter, I think that the Confeds should have something in the way of a decent surface fleet to at least make the naval game interesting.
 
Wow, Omega that's really cool! I was wondering if some events for occupied Canada might be appropriate. Maybe set to Confederates reaching certain cities like say Columbus. That could work for triggering the Mormon uprising as well. Is it possible to tie events to occupying provinces?

re. Bloodhound = :cool:

As for US carrier names, I can't remember any past Remembrance, but we can make some up in the same p/o'd Yankee vein.


USS Vengeance
USS Eagle
USS Sentinel
USS Executor :D
 
Bras, in reference to IC, I havnt decided on a firm number yet for US/CS, BUT I know US will have a tremendous hit in IC if Ohio falls...I'm thinking right now CS around that magic 120-130 IC base compared to a low 200 base for US (US kept most of it's infrastructure from GW yet socialism took a big hit on US IC). In dealing with tech teams, CS will get about 1/2 to 2/3 of wat the US has in tech teams with lvls ranging from 6-9.

As I've posted, CS will have some sort of surface fleet but more depends on subs. And I kinda like USS Vengence and USS Executor Baron. There is one more carrier that was working with the Rememberence in the Gulf of Mexico and I'll get it's name tonight.

As for trigs, I'm finding it a bit more difficult to build the Morman Uprising out of stratch so if anyone knows where that special Alien trig is, please pass it on to me.

And related to Occupied Canada, I was thinking give the US an option to turn over the occupation to Quebec Forces (where the US gets 3 additional divisions BUT dissent in OcCan goes up 15%).
 
i dont think the dissent hit should be that high and i think the trig. is listed in the Wiki
as for the Confederites making it up to the great lakes, maybe increased dissent and partisan levels in all provinces as well as reduced industrial effiancy
 
GGAllin said:
Though ive only read the first those books i have read the great war series and i loved it i just havnt had the time to read the rest but this mod sounds GREAT! :)
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Hate to sound like a broken record, but im going to reitilerate the need to keep US IC high..even with ohio split, the USA is stronger then the CSA in IC, and the game should reflect that. Dividing the USA gives the CSA a credible chance, and without dividing it the USA will just steamroll the CSA in production. With ohio taken, the US should still be the CSA's IC superior by a factor of 1/4th or so at least..

(Im not a big fan of altering reality for balance, as the AI is enough of a handicap for anyone already, and there should be a thrilling difficulty. People dont play the '44 scenario for its balanced atmosphere..)

The same with tech teams. I cant argue with Sloss (not birmingham) iron works being a high level; it was historically the best in the USA after the pennsylvania one i disremember the name of. Tredgar is also a very high prestige, skilled team. But the CSA doesent have much else good going for it outside of doctrinal thinkers..(Nathan Bedford Forrest III as a guderian analog? Patton as another?) I would point to brasidas's analog to italy as how CS tech teams should appear.

(it feels really weird being the moderating voice to calm overpowering the CSA..this may be the only realm in my life at any time in which ive advocated keeping the CSA weaker)

Edit: killerbob raises a good point on partisans. Ohio and northern virginia were covered in them badly according to the books, and the CSA has its black insurgents. will they be moddled? And will we have events for the enlargement of the CS military to deal with the black uprisings? (+ manpower, and IIRC they were allowed to use planes with armaments to put down the black rebels, so maybe a CAS added to the force pool? )
 
Lettow77 said:
Edit: killerbob raises a good point on partisans. Ohio and northern virginia were covered in them badly according to the books, and the CSA has its black insurgents. will they be moddled? And will we have events for the enlargement of the CS military to deal with the black uprisings? (+ manpower, and IIRC they were allowed to use planes with armaments to put down the black rebels, so maybe a CAS added to the force pool? )
Click to expand...

perhaps an increased partisan modifier for the CSA. as for the enlargement of the CS army to deal with the uprisings that should definitly be event that possibly lowers their peacetime penalty. also before this event fires if the CSA builds any airplaned the US should have the option to DOW

just my opinion
 
Not sure if you already have this in, but the nuclear scientist who talked with Featherston could be a tech team for the South. He would probably be rather low, maybe skill 3-4 like with Kaganavorich.(sp?)

I would think that Forrest III would be a Field Marshal or atleast a General, along with being the Army minister for the CSA.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but you could block off the Panama Canal. In the books the Canal was never built because the USA and the CSA could never decide on who would control it. Perhaps this could be shown by giving it to Panama and making it so that no one can go through it?

Perhaps Japan should get +10-20 IC as they now have the Dutch East Indies, Indochina, and etc.

Not sure how China would be in this timeline, maybe they should just be left alone? I don't recall Turtledove ever stating whether China was unified or whether it was split up between warlords.

The OE should have high dissent in non-Turkish provinces.They probably would have more IC as they now have some rather large oil wells. 35-40 maximum IC is what I'm thinking.

Einstein could be a tech team for Germany.

Dowling could be a General, defensive doctrine, and 3 skill.
MacArthur - Field Marshal, 2 skill, offensive doctrine?
Morrel - Mj. General 5 skill, Panzer, offensive doctrine, logistics wizard.
Rememberance should be a lvl 1 Carrier, if that's not already in.
Forrest III - General (Field Marshal?)l, 4 skill, defensive doctrine, offensive doctrine, panzer.

The German possesions in the Pacific is a rather touchy subject. For one, Turtledove never stated that Germany lost them, nor did he mention that they kept them. Though to think that Germany would have held them against Japan is rather naive.

The U.S should always have a very significant amont of IC compared with the CSA. Though if the U.S is splt in half, the CSA should have a chance at winning.

One interesting event could be where the player decides whether or not Stuart II should be fired or not. If they don't fire him then they get a dissent hit? He could be a General, Old Guard, and 2 skill?

Debating with Lettow over AIM, he thinks that Forrest doesn't have the command over the Eastern forces while I think he does. Can anyone clarify?
 
Other US carrier with rememberence was the USS Sandwich Islands.

Phillipines is Jap puppet, so better remove Macarthur general!!

I would have thought the tech teams that came with patch 1.2 for the CSA would all be in, as well as tredegar and birmingham etc. I dont see any real reason that CS should have any deficiency in tech teams.

Excpet in nuke research. And with all the other stuff to research anyway, I dont think it will be a problem. The one team that does have a nuke tech isnt that high anyway...

As for world IC comparisons..
1st- Germany
2nd- USA
3rd- UK
4th- CSA
5th- France
6th- Jap
7th- Czarist Russia

opinions?
 
HMS Enterprize said:
Other US carrier with rememberence was the USS Sandwich Islands.

Phillipines is Jap puppet, so better remove Macarthur general!!

I would have thought the tech teams that came with patch 1.2 for the CSA would all be in, as well as tredegar and birmingham etc. I dont see any real reason that CS should have any deficiency in tech teams.

Excpet in nuke research. And with all the other stuff to research anyway, I dont think it will be a problem. The one team that does have a nuke tech isnt that high anyway...

As for world IC comparisons..
1st- Germany
2nd- USA
3rd- UK
4th- CSA
5th- France
6th- Jap
7th- Czarist Russia

opinions?
Click to expand...

Alot of the CS tech teams for 1.2 would make no sense, like oak ridge or marine base guantanimo..CSA would, in my opinion, have weaker tech teams because its in they're blood. You have to recall, even into 1941 under featherston, the south is an agrarian nation. The great thing is tractors. The south is just...not a tech team oriented place. I would think 1-2 high skill tech teams (id prefer 1, but i must concede sloss iron works was justified) and having the rest be 2-6 in skill. The south doesent have an industrialist inventer culture, nor has it ever, and it has less funds to work with then its neighbors.

Just my opinion though..and good IC layout, i agree.#4 and #5 should be close.
 
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