-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Yes, a new IGC+ thread would be a good idea
to start afresh so to say.
I am still trying different settings for some of the files but have run into a problem with crashes that have slowed my progress.
I have also seen that indeed the nations that aren't supposed to be able to build warships often have a few, but they are just a few. I don't see ant "fleet size" holdings per se. If they are possessing 3-10 warships by 1550, that could just be due to Naval Events and not them actually building them.
Would seem odd that the warship setting didn't work but that the settings for the cavalry and artillery would. Again though, expect some cavalry due to Land Events. I don't recall artillery being a part of the special event package.
to start afresh so to say.
I am still trying different settings for some of the files but have run into a problem with crashes that have slowed my progress.
I have also seen that indeed the nations that aren't supposed to be able to build warships often have a few, but they are just a few. I don't see ant "fleet size" holdings per se. If they are possessing 3-10 warships by 1550, that could just be due to Naval Events and not them actually building them.
Would seem odd that the warship setting didn't work but that the settings for the cavalry and artillery would. Again though, expect some cavalry due to Land Events. I don't recall artillery being a part of the special event package.
A report on tech levels
Currently 1680 in IGC2.2 with IGC+ (hands on). Land tech is running about 30 years ahead of schedule, while Navy tech is running about 30 years behind. There is a tremendous disparity between European countries and RotW - tech group probably.
I know this has been a subject of tuning, forever. I cannot recall seeing any specific discussion of land and navy tech in the current tech/economic threads. Has anyone who has been doing hands off tracked this? And created a baseline from EU1.09, for that matter? I'll try to do so this weekend if the data does not already exist.
Currently 1680 in IGC2.2 with IGC+ (hands on). Land tech is running about 30 years ahead of schedule, while Navy tech is running about 30 years behind. There is a tremendous disparity between European countries and RotW - tech group probably.
I know this has been a subject of tuning, forever. I cannot recall seeing any specific discussion of land and navy tech in the current tech/economic threads. Has anyone who has been doing hands off tracked this? And created a baseline from EU1.09, for that matter? I'll try to do so this weekend if the data does not already exist.
Land & Naval Techs
Cunctator made the most progress with these settings. I had used his settings and found they progressed too rapidly with the other changes in IGC+. I switched to the default EU tech settings and they seemed closer but still the progress was faster for land texh than it should have been and naval tech tended to be a bit behind (this is with respect to the "date" benchmarks of EU Province's page). I don't know now what Cunctator has done with his tech settings and whether there is a fundamental change due to 1.09.
I don't mind them lagging behind though, as a player-controlled country tends to do better in tech anyway.
Also, a thing to keep in mind is that the date benchmarks refer to the first nation developing that technology, not the "average" nation.
Cunctator made the most progress with these settings. I had used his settings and found they progressed too rapidly with the other changes in IGC+. I switched to the default EU tech settings and they seemed closer but still the progress was faster for land texh than it should have been and naval tech tended to be a bit behind (this is with respect to the "date" benchmarks of EU Province's page). I don't know now what Cunctator has done with his tech settings and whether there is a fundamental change due to 1.09.
I don't mind them lagging behind though, as a player-controlled country tends to do better in tech anyway.
Also, a thing to keep in mind is that the date benchmarks refer to the first nation developing that technology, not the "average" nation.
Also, a thing to keep in mind is that the date benchmarks refer to the first nation developing that technology, not the "average" nation.
I have been thinking about tech advancement in general, and your point has stimulated the thought about distribution of results. Be it tech advancement or other economic results. What kind of distribution should be expected (or we should shoot for)? For example does the mod work if 85% of countries of a certain type are at a certain level at a certain time?
I have been thinking about tech advancement in general, and your point has stimulated the thought about distribution of results. Be it tech advancement or other economic results. What kind of distribution should be expected (or we should shoot for)? For example does the mod work if 85% of countries of a certain type are at a certain level at a certain time?
Re: Land & Naval Techs
Hmm, the .csv files developer notes call the colum "Average Date for Next" so I'm not so shure your right about that.
But then again lying 10+ years ahead of date incurse a huge research penalty, so it might be either case I guess =)
Hmm, the .csv files developer notes call the colum "Average Date for Next" so I'm not so shure your right about that.
But then again lying 10+ years ahead of date incurse a huge research penalty, so it might be either case I guess =)
Yes, i'm sorry, i did read this
before. Is this the algorithm you wish to include in the IGC+ package?
I think, if it is OK with you, that as we gather the files, we could send them to you and you could create the master zip? I think maybe State will work on the colonists.csv file, but i'm not sure. And of course you know more about the tech settings than anyone here. I can make changes to the buildingcosts.csv file and Errant may want to ratchet down/change some of the goods.csv values.
On the tech progress by dates:
If you use the "average" nation as the benchmark for the tech date then that would seem really odd (to me anyway). Because then you would be including nations that don't have a need for the tech (land-locked nations) in the calculation. Husziks, you may be right as the EU engine has this neighbor adjustment factor influence the game so many ways, but it sure would gum up things for us lay-folk.
I think also it makes me want to avoid a direct response to State's question about benchmarking tech advances. I simply don't know enough about it despite recording progress for some 12+ games. I used the "average" for a while but that seemed to be so far behind that I didn't believe it was possible so I started using the "first" nation and that seemed a lot better.
before. Is this the algorithm you wish to include in the IGC+ package?
I think, if it is OK with you, that as we gather the files, we could send them to you and you could create the master zip? I think maybe State will work on the colonists.csv file, but i'm not sure. And of course you know more about the tech settings than anyone here. I can make changes to the buildingcosts.csv file and Errant may want to ratchet down/change some of the goods.csv values.
On the tech progress by dates:
If you use the "average" nation as the benchmark for the tech date then that would seem really odd (to me anyway). Because then you would be including nations that don't have a need for the tech (land-locked nations) in the calculation. Husziks, you may be right as the EU engine has this neighbor adjustment factor influence the game so many ways, but it sure would gum up things for us lay-folk.
I think also it makes me want to avoid a direct response to State's question about benchmarking tech advances. I simply don't know enough about it despite recording progress for some 12+ games. I used the "average" for a while but that seemed to be so far behind that I didn't believe it was possible so I started using the "first" nation and that seemed a lot better.
I reshaped land.csv so that the top nation reaches around 50-52 land level in 1792. That seemed correct to me, i mean gameplay.
Indeed i used a modified infra.cvs and trade.csv in my test configuration, so i these files should not be included in ICG+ even land.csv must be reshaped.
Indeed i used a modified infra.cvs and trade.csv in my test configuration, so i these files should not be included in ICG+ even land.csv must be reshaped.
Cunctator
Let me rephrase my question. And I apolgize for not re-reading the threads which have a lot of detail from you.
What is the distribution of tech levels at any given point in time? For a given tech group (e.g. Latin), is the distribution of tech levels amongst the countries like a bell curve? That is, a small number of countries in the top 15% of tech levels, a large number in the next 35%, a large number in the next 35%, and finally a small number in the lowest 15% of tech level values.
The distribution may not be relevant, but it would be nice to have as many countries as possible tracking to the "expected" tech advancement. Even though the file may not work based on "average date" our mod results should achieve something like that.
Let me rephrase my question. And I apolgize for not re-reading the threads which have a lot of detail from you.
What is the distribution of tech levels at any given point in time? For a given tech group (e.g. Latin), is the distribution of tech levels amongst the countries like a bell curve? That is, a small number of countries in the top 15% of tech levels, a large number in the next 35%, a large number in the next 35%, and finally a small number in the lowest 15% of tech level values.
The distribution may not be relevant, but it would be nice to have as many countries as possible tracking to the "expected" tech advancement. Even though the file may not work based on "average date" our mod results should achieve something like that.
A week later..
I really don't know.
The only test i made, besides looking at the higher level achieved at end game, was with 1.08 to verify if the strategy i choosed to alter the 'expected' date (the + - x% issue) lead to a curve superimposable at the original one (the curve drown using the original 'expected date" in the .csv files). I used the ledger information to have the yearly position for every major. The result was very satisfactory (the curve even changed slope at the same time for latin group), so i concluded i was on the rigth way.
Indeed i didn't do such kind of test with 1.09
I really don't know.
The only test i made, besides looking at the higher level achieved at end game, was with 1.08 to verify if the strategy i choosed to alter the 'expected' date (the + - x% issue) lead to a curve superimposable at the original one (the curve drown using the original 'expected date" in the .csv files). I used the ledger information to have the yearly position for every major. The result was very satisfactory (the curve even changed slope at the same time for latin group), so i concluded i was on the rigth way.
Indeed i didn't do such kind of test with 1.09
It does not matter
Since the technology groups (Latin, Orthodox, etc.) seem to have tech levels very close to each other, and of course, your changes work very well.
Since the technology groups (Latin, Orthodox, etc.) seem to have tech levels very close to each other, and of course, your changes work very well.
Any good theories out there on the effects of each tech group on tech development? My latest theory is that the neighbor bonus is actually related to the expected date of the next tech level with a modifier based on tech group.
My previous theory, from Bib I believe, was that each tech group was used to calcuate the difference in level from you to the highest lvl within that group. So if you were 5 levels of land tech back from the leader you got a specified bonus.
No clue how it really works, and looking for any information in posts and on the web yeilded nothing.
ErrantOne
My previous theory, from Bib I believe, was that each tech group was used to calcuate the difference in level from you to the highest lvl within that group. So if you were 5 levels of land tech back from the leader you got a specified bonus.
No clue how it really works, and looking for any information in posts and on the web yeilded nothing.
ErrantOne