Unit of the Day?

[Raventhefuhrer]

Oh, and don't forget to get a handful of people off your friends list to click "respectfully disagree" on this post too, you're this close to running me off the board! Also avoid pinging or quoting me again if you reply, we want to minimize the chance that I actually reply so you can impress your friends by having the last word. lmao, this kind of childish pettiness is what makes the Wargame community such a worthless cesspool.

Oh drats! You saw through my cunning plan to conscript my trusty companionites to try and harry you off the forums by respectfully disagreeing with one of your posts. What's more, you deftly ascertained my ploy to neglect quoting you to ensure that my word would be the last. Then you countered me by not pinging me in return, so that I might miss your parting shot.

No but come on. Are you going to keep a straight face while you try to tell me Eugen has always been the model of openness, with flawless community management, and a fool proof system of refining their game's balance? Or are you going to quibble with me on whether or not Eugen's lackluster 'dev diaries' about LaFayette ships three years ago qualify as anything worth seeing? Point is Eugen can and should learn a lot from Paradox when it comes to PR.

Sure, we'll get a glut of information when people get into the beta, despite being bound by the NDA that everyone totally read as they rushed through the sign-up for first-come, first-served beta. But I submit there's a lot better way to do things than letting the kids onto the playground and seeing what mayhem ensues.

 

[Beeroshima]

^^^^ I didn't like this post because i don't want anyone getting upset.

 

[Thonar]

Eugen deserves critics for the development of Wargame from EE to RD (I remember the Vasily story a bit differently).

But: Why doesn't people realize that Eugen made a huge shift with SDN44?
Nearly every new "neat" aspects can be directly attributed to suggestions from players from Wargame: The frontline mechanic, the phase mechanic, no prototypes, actual TOEs being used, off-map artillery,... I remember all of these being suggested by players for Wargame.

 

[Killertomato]

Who wanted off-map artillery? There's nothing that could possibly be considered off-map in wargame RD scale except ICBMs and cruise missiles.

 

[Graphic]

Are you going to keep a straight face while you try to tell me Eugen has always been the model of openness, with flawless community management, and a fool proof system of refining their game's balance?

I never said that hon, but you can argue with Straw Graphic all you like. That doesn't concern me.

I pointed out you said something inaccurate; that you had to parse your comments is proof that I had a point. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

^^^^ I didn't like this post because i don't want anyone getting upset.

kek. I'm just a bit bemused and amused that Raven found it necessary to organize a vote brigade because I challenged him on a post. We've got some thin skin around here, I've got to keep that in mind to not create disruptions in the future.

 

[Thonar]

Who wanted off-map artillery? There's nothing that could possibly be considered off-map in wargame RD scale except ICBMs and cruise missiles.

Since a Wargame Meter was more like 25cm on-map made in most cases no sense.

Also I have to add to my point:
Wargame listened to the playerbase before too, but wanted to reach the masses with a game that was never suited for them.
With SDN44 they go finally the niche approach with easy control.

 

[Graphic]

Since a Wargame Meter was more like 25cm on-map made in most cases no sense.

Also I have to add to my point:
Wargame listened to the playerbase before too, but wanted to reach the masses with a game that was never suited for them.
With SDN44 they go finally the niche approach with easy control.

The accumulation of "features" and design/balance decisions in the name of pleasing casual people who weren't even playing the game are what turned Wargame into the unsatisfying, shapeless mass it became. Hopefully the focus is still kept in SD a year of two from now. In today's game industry if you're not a AAA developer there's no point in trying to satisfy anybody but a dedicated niche audience.

 

[Raventhefuhrer]

Straw Graphic

Does Straw Graphic cherry pick arguments and quibble over semantics like you do, or is he a guy who can write a credible response? Maybe I'd rather debate him, but instead I have you so we need to parse through sentence structure rather than dealing with the big ideas.

Point in fact, Eugen doesn't do Paradox-style Dev Diaries. Sure we got twelve-ish devblog posts before RD's launch, but only a portion of those contained any real content. On the other hand, here's the Dev-Diaries Paradox has done https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ssacks-and-beyond-development-diaries.877170/ since release of EU4. We're certainly not going to get that, and at this rate I'm not even sure we'll get the obligatory, low-effort Unit of the Day threads.

Will Eugen 'touch base' with the Community each week to preview what they're working on in the coming months, where they see gameplay balance, or how they envision the game evolving? No, of course not. If we're like Red Dragon - and I pray to God we aren't - we'll get our first major patch some four months after launch, and pretty much maintain radio silence while we play the same old song and dance where we hemorrhage players between DLCs/infrequent patches and spend hours in the LobbySim.

So that's my point. Eugen needs to learn a thing or two from Paradox's development practices and yeah, for most of RD's life it was pulling teeth to get answers out of Eugen on basic questions like where the game's headed, when the next patch is coming, and so on. Refer back to my Mr. Buggy screenshot.

 

[Killertomato]

Since a Wargame Meter was more like 25cm on-map made in most cases no sense.
.

I just don't recall anyone actually asking for it.

I'm betting offmap arty will only be in campaign mode too. No counterbattery/ability to surprise and destroy the arty in the rear areas is no bueno.

 

[Graphic]

I just don't recall anyone actually asking for it.

I'm betting offmap arty will only be in campaign mode too. No counterbattery/ability to surprise and destroy the arty in the rear areas is no bueno.

Hopefully. I can't see how naval/railroad guns don't end up as something 10x worse than ATACMS/Smerch.

 

[Grosnours]

About the lack of developer diary or unit of the day posts, I would gladly exchange all of those against a polished version of the game. All those are nice crowd pleasers but bring absolutely ZERO value after the game is out and take non negligible time to prepare. On top of that it only caters to a portion of the potential audience, the ones already interested enough.
So nice stuff to have but entirely dispensable.

(I remember the Vasily story a bit differently).

So do I.

Nearly every new "neat" aspects can be directly attributed to suggestions from players from Wargame: The frontline mechanic, the phase mechanic, no prototypes, actual TOEs being used, off-map artillery,... I remember all of these being suggested by players for Wargame.

Indeed, but it could also have been just a case of competition awareness. I mean most of those suggestions are logically taken more or less directly from other videogames and people at Eugen are quite knowledgeable about all other wargames out there.
But yes, repeated suggestions from the players surely helped too.

Who wanted off-map artillery?

I did.
And suggested it since at least WAB (maybe even earlier) and I distinctly remember not being the only one. IMHO Steel Panthers was always a gem of a game and a source of many pointers concerning game mechanisms, especially in the off-map (planes & arty) department.

I'm betting offmap arty will only be in campaign mode too. No counterbattery/ability to surprise and destroy the arty in the rear areas is no bueno.

Funny, I have always thought otherwise and found the ability for forces engaged in an engagement skirmish to destroy all available support artillery muy muy estupido.

Even though I really hate this kind of argument I would also seriously doubt lightning fast counter-battery fire (like you can have in the wargame serie) was available during WW2.

 

[Thonar]

I just don't recall anyone actually asking for it.

I'm betting offmap arty will only be in campaign mode too. No counterbattery/ability to surprise and destroy the arty in the rear areas is no bueno.

Hopefully. I can't see how naval/railroad guns don't end up as something 10x worse than ATACMS/Smerch.

Except e.g. in World in Conflict it was relatively good handled... not to mention that Aircrafts in Wargame worked always as "off-map" support.
So it really depends on the actual implementation.

 

[Graphic]

Except e.g. in World in Conflict it was relatively good handled... not to mention that Aircrafts in Wargame worked always as "off-map" support.
So it really depends on the actual implementation.

It did work in World in Conflict but that's a totally different game.

 

[Thonar]

It did work in World in Conflict but that's a totally different game.

I didn't propose one or the other system just stating that it is possible to balance and showed games were it was done accordingly and thus refused your general statement.

 

[Graphic]

I didn't propose one or the other system just stating that it is possible to balance and showed games were it was done accordingly and thus refused your general statement.

Saying it worked in a game with completely different gameplay doesn't refute anything.

 

[Wicca]

We can make our unit of the day

 

[Rocksitter]

Go look them up its not hard and if you read o some units that is not put in the game at least you learned something.

 

[Graphic]

Unit of the Day may not be the best fit for this game, but Division of the Week would be great.

 

[Thonar]

Saying it worked in a game with completely different gameplay doesn't refute anything.

WiC wasn't so much different, but even then the aircraft point stands.

 

[Raventhefuhrer]

About the lack of developer diary or unit of the day posts, I would gladly exchange all of those against a polished version of the game. All those are nice crowd pleasers but bring absolutely ZERO value after the game is out and take non negligible time to prepare. On top of that it only caters to a portion of the potential audience, the ones already interested enough.
So nice stuff to have but entirely dispensable.

Well, of course I would trade all the developer diaries in the world for a completely polished, idealized game. But it's not an either-or proposition and the developer diaries do take relatively negligible time. Could MadMat, who as far as I know doesn't do anything related to actual coding, take one hour each week to do a write-up on some aspect of the game, and take screenshots without disrupting game development? He could and he should.

Unit of the Day may not be the best fit for this game, but Division of the Week would be great.

See, now there's a good idea. Maybe a Division of the Day Dev Diary would be best because you can call it DDDD-Day.