Upcoming Birthday & State of Asset Editor and Console

[BoraBora]

for me, this experience here is too juvenile (or i might just be old). peace

Calling people who don't agree with you juvenile, kiddies, immature etc. is the most common form of insult on social networks. So please, don't pretend you want "peace". And don't spread misinformation about the region packs being free because the game is still in this sorry state after 14 months.

 

[WellDoneGromit]

Our focus is currently on removing Unity dependencies so we can provide a smoother, more responsive, and more reliable loading of the assets - both during loading screens and when changing playsets in Paradox Mods UI. Without this, the game freezes for extended periods of time and can become unstable.

Is this way i have nearly a 20 minute load time?

 

[The Aziz]

Ok sure, asset editor, whatever.
3 Content Creator packs when? You're sort of running out of time here.

 

[splashgod]

Ok sure, asset editor, whatever.
3 Content Creator packs when? You're sort of running out of time here.

Maybe they'll announce those on Monday.

 

[UtopianEvil]

I think fixing the issues they're describing with the asset editor before releasing it is a good thing actually. The freezing issue they're talking about is apparent with the region packs and doesn't actually have anything to do with the editor itself. Imagine they released the editor, people start using it, and then oops! We have to break all the assets because things load badly. It would be an absolute catastrophe. It sounds like they have to refactor every asset that's been released thus far, likely including the thousands of region pack assets. Obviously, it's another tick in the "game released too early" box, but it is actually disaster averted as the issue would just continue to snowball even with officially released content.

As for console, I am firmly of the belief that trying to build out the console and PC version at the same time is why we're in this mess in the first place as the attention was too divided.

Anyway, I thank the CO team for their openness and update and look forward to more of them.

I think you are right. But consider that they likely have to do it with all assets released from the start, potentially all the region packs that they did a work-around to give us, and then all the unreleased planned assets for the DLC, other packs and whatever might be in their skunkworks. That sounds like quite a grueling job to do and alot of assets to fix. But it does explains why it takes such long time.

If the game survives this ordeal and they keep up the work flow, then whatever gets released on the other side is gonna be big packs. Because it sounds like they are doing most of the game a second time in half the time. So a DLC is gonna be cakewalk after this.

 

[UtopianEvil]

Is this way i have nearly a 20 minute load time?

I think that is quite likely the reason. It explains quite a bit.

I suspect some of the crashes people report from time to time in these forums likely also are rooted in this.
Especially if assets created on different machines can act weird even if they should not. Because 8 region packs by 31 people must be created on about as many machines. And then all then CO machines. Leading to quite a bit of weirdness going on.

If this holds true as a reason, then whenever they are done with with work and the asset editor, then the game should run alot smoother for a lot of people.

But right now, all we can do is wait and hope that the above is indeed the case.

 

[Xiyng]

That's disappointing - and surprising, since I thought that perhaps the region packs releases were aligned to custom asset support release. It's not affecting me personally very much, since I didn't use custom assets very much in the first game either and have been enjoying the second game a lot without starting the first one even once after the second one released, but I would like the atmosphere around the game to finally settle a bit.

Anyway, thanks for the update, even if its content was disappointing!

 

[Purplizer]

To be fair, this is no longer the fault of communications/PR staff. And I don't really blame them. In fact it was the right call to jump on this to 'temper expectations'' after people got hyped up with the teaser announcement. In fact I don't expect much apart from a goofy park asset with the Skylines logo or some extra trees.

This is 100 percent a game designer and developer issue.

Oh, you're absolutely right about that. There is mismanagement, deadlines apparantly don't exist in Finland, you could write a book about those problems (and we kind of have).

I'm simply replying about the communications part because it's my profession. And a good communications strategy wouldn't fix the underlying issues with the game. But it could improve the relationship with the community, and it would give the developers additional time to improve the game without being surrounded by pitchforks.

The current strategy is that there isn't a strategy. First the PDX team overpromised, then CO started communicating but Mariina isn't a comms professional which showed. Then PDX swooped in promising to do better and start communicating ... which resulted in deafening silence after maybe two promising months. Now CO started overhyping on social media for some reason, which led to this PDX message.

I mean, even if you try to do everything wrong communications wise, many would still do better than what we've seen in the past 16 months. This game has enough difficult to solve problems as is, but I assure you the community would keep quieter with a better communication strategy. All the current non-strategy does is add fuel to the fire.

Communications is a very underestimated profession. You wouldn't believe how many people have asked me "oh, why did you do a comms study? Everyone can write and talk." Yes, and it shows ...

 

[ProfessorHornbuckle]

At this point I'd be happier with an announcement that you're cancelling the game after the Ultimate Edition obligations are (finally) fulfilled (well over a year late).

I'd rather know to never expect anything to actually happen than to ever have any shred of hope that just once you'll put out good news and meaningfully improve the state of the game. I'd so, so much rather be free of wishing one day we'd actually get a product worth paying for.

Do you understand how badly mismanaged your product and communication has to be for someone to earnestly truly believe they'd have been happier with an announcement you were giving up than with one where you clarify that your special 10th anniversary announcement WONT be either of the two biggest things you've failed to deliver on? I would literally rather hear this game is done and over with than hear for the hundredth time that you don't have any ETA on when these things will be done or when to expect the game to ever get any better. This is like being in an abusive relationship. You keep teasing "eventually" and it is never going to come and you won't free us from waiting for it.

 

[Jen1]

I'd never get away with "we're working hard on it" for over a year. I would be pushed for a date.

I hope you take this constructively. I'm not trying to be a pinhead. It's just -- you're in desperate need of deadlines.

Deadlines don't fix bugs.
Only bug fixes do.

Imagine you have a software package that has some bugs. You fix the most destructive. As you do that, another, new bug appears. You allocate recources to fix that and it gets swatted. But an all-new bug then appears with that fix. When that is fixed, yet another one rises its ugly head. And it keeps on going. Fix after fix reveals a new bug every time.

Tell us the exact date, when will you get the last bug fixed.

 

[Solsbeary]

Fix the UK Region pack

 

[Lys91]

Is this way i have nearly a 20 minute load time?

Check the forum, you need to disable logs. It is on by default and slow things down a lot. It is often on during development/debugging but most software turn it off by default for release. This is a sign of poor software engineering practices.

Will there ever be a fix for the ridiculous (official) content load times?

I play vanilla. Only region packs, zero other "mods." Loading into the game takes *minutes,* and then I have to spend additional *minutes* waiting for "mods" (Region packs) to initialize, followed by virtual texturing, which also freezes for a...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[BoraBora]

Deadlines don't fix bugs.
Only bug fixes do.

Without deadlines, nothing would ever be done. Not here, not anywhere. That's what a manager do: balance the work to be done, the deadlines, the workforce and the budget. If you don't want deadlines, work in research, not in production.

 

[Jen1]

Without deadlines, nothing would ever be done. Not here, not anywhere. That's what a manager do: balance the work to be done, the deadlines, the workforce and the budget. If you don't want deadlines, work in research, not in production.

You failed to tell us, how the deadlines fix the yet unknown bugs, whose total number is not known to anyone.
Yes, budget is good (just find the money), workforce is good (how much more are you going to hire? How about your budget after that?)
But just tell us the exact details, how these will tell you the total number of yet unknown bugs and time required to fix all of them.

 

[Qualiall]

Is this way i have nearly a 20 minute load time?

It's the game logs that cause it to slow down. Turn them off and it loads much quicker

 

[TCollins1]

It would have been better if you focused your small amount of devs on getting the already years old PC version straightened out before even considering console!

 

[Qualiall]

It would have been better if you focused your small amount of devs on getting the already years old PC version straightened out before even considering console!

dudde its a different team all together for console

 

[BoraBora]

You failed to tell us, how the deadlines fix the yet unknown bugs, whose total number is not known to anyone.
Yes, budget is good (just find the money), workforce is good (how much more are you going to hire? How about your budget after that?)
But just tell us the exact details, how these will tell you the total number of yet unknown bugs and time required to fix all of them.

Bugs don't appear magically, they're mistakes made by humans. That's why there are good pros and not so good pros, just like in any trade. That's also why some games are bugfests and others are reasonably bug-free. Part of managing a team is also to make sure you hired the right people for the job. And being a pro is knowing what you can do and what you can't. Obviously CO has bitten off more than they can chew with CS II. I don't blame the developers, I blame the management and whoever planned and designed a game seemingly impossible to achieve in 7 years . Anyway, a lot of the current bugs were already reported by beta-testers before the release. They never were unknown.

Everything is tied to money. Just like movies, some games are cancelled before their release because they can't meet their deadline and they would go way over their budget. In projects like this, the deadline is purely the moment you'll start to earn money instead of spending it. The difference between movies and games is that you can't fix a movie with 14 patches along the first years after its release.

This is a moot point, anyway. If you don't want a deadline and you don't have any idea how much more time you need, then don't release your software. If you must because you need money, then release it in early access, don't pretend anything is "coming soon" and don't ask for money for a product you can't be sure to deliver (still 8 DLCs not released among those bought by a lot of people in 2023).

All games are released with some bugs and most of them, like CS1, are mostly fixed 3 months later. CSII should have been released in 2020, was delayed to 2023 and is still incomplete and bugged in 2025 with no ETA for the full modding support, the console release, the most serious bugs fixing, the missing simulation mechanics, the graphic bugs, the bikes, the animations etc. The list is endless.

When CO said they were there designing CS II to last 10 years, everybody understood this in a good way, which is "we'll add features to the game for 10 years by releasing optional paying DLCs and some free new features with the odd patch". Not "pay now then wait for 10 years for the game to be complete and fixed".

 

[Derangedteddy]

As a developer, it's simply mind boggling that this one issue has taken sixteen months of investigation and development with no end in sight. I can't think of any problem that would take this long to resolve. In my 15 years of experience as a professional dev, I've never encountered an issue that took sixteen months of full time work with a team of developers to reach a definitive conclusion.

It sounds like it's just not possible, and that we're being strung along. Rather than giving us the hard truth, that CO and Paradox promised us the Asset Editor knowing that they had massive unresolved issues with it, that it's not coming, and was never possible in the first place, we're being told, yet again, to wait just a little bit longer.

My patience is exhausted. Sixteen months is long enough. I had hoped that this "world tour" was a delay tactic to keep us busy so that the final touches could be made on the Asset Editor, after which it would finally be released.

Lesson learned. I will not be buying another CO/Paradox product. I hope to God you're not daft enough to start selling (EDIT: new) paid DLC before the Asset Editor is available. If this was all a ploy to sell more DLC, your community will not tolerate this.

 

[BoraBora]

I hope to God you're not daft enough to start selling paid DLC before the Asset Editor is available. If this was all a ploy to sell more DLC, your community will not tolerate this.

They don't have much choice as they already sold a lot of DLCs in advance and they have to release them. After the next 8, though... But no, I don't think for a minute it's a ploy. Like you, I think they're stuck with unsolvable issues.