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Aladar said:Zag and me played this for a while as Poland and Denmark. We were both HUGE, Zag owned much of germany, hungary, bohemia, austria and italy. I have all scandinavia, finland, baltics and north germany.
We also had a Venice/Russia game, where i kicked his a...
So we have played this before, I've even played it several times in SP. So let's not be too hasty with getting it on the tracks.
If you don't want to give any boost to any country I'm more than fine with it.
Considering England; ok it should be toned down (although I have no idea how would you do that except deleting all generals) Considering France; (I don't want to play it so this is honest opinion) I don't think it should be toned down because it is already in parts. Regarding Castille; I also advise no changes but you can tone it down (although, again I have no idea how except deleting some leaders which should be there when human France attacks). Considering idea that AI will be dead too soon; this is wrong way of thinking imo. AI will be dead in session or two after start. There is no way to avoid that and it would be the same if we started in 1419, 1492 or 1600+. AI is AI!!! Right way of thinking would be how to construct a longterm game with a lot of fun and balance. In all games real fight and balance shifts happens between players, not between players and AI. So discussion about poor AI is pointless imo although I respect every opinion in that matter.Somebody pointed out that we will be too large too soon and that we should take minors to slow expansion. :wacko: Only thing that will stop expansion of any player will be another player, not BB.
Aladar said:
Good point but again (I hope I'm not boring) imagine players in England, France, Castille, Brandenburg, Poland and Austria with Tonio in France. I purely doubt he would own British Isles and Iberia in 30 years. Please don't compare MP with almost SP. If you don't belive me please try France with England and Spain emptied in any scenario and I bet on my honour that you would beat them very quickly.
Aladar said:
If you want to do that it is ok but be carefull not to weaken them in relation to each other or there will be dead superpowers in the future.
Aladar said:
Thursday??? IIRC it is ok with you Aladar...
Toned down may not need to be killing generals, could also be less shields for England.
For France we are looking at when all there 5-6 vassels will be annexed the natural way.
Castille should not have Aragon as vassel, that will happen in 1476 or so if i recall correctly.
But all 3 countries are somewhat larger than the rest at the beginning, so perhaps starting with fewer cash.
Remember that we all start with 1/1/1/1 so kicking all the AI's isn't that easy. They all cheat and wield large armies, just look at the game we played monday, where Austria/Lombardia had 80.000 troops against me. I could support something like 30.000 at the same time. Took me 10 years and all my cash to win the war. So the AI's won't be gone after the first session, i'm rather sure of that.
Playable nations should be Portugal, Castile, France, England, Denmark/Sweden, BB/Poland, Austria, Venice, Oe and Muscowy. This way nobody can expand wildly without hitting some human player. Not all 10 need to be taken thou, 6-8 players would be fine too.
But when you compare the 10 nations, you'll see that ENG/FRA/CAS are much larger from the beginning, and some of them even with great leaders from the beginning. They will need some kinda of toning down.
I've got something like this in mind for edits:
- Leadercreation from the beginning for all
- Aprox 1000d from start (less for some)
- Cores in all primeculture provinses (which means several nations will have overlapsing cores)
- More culture for some countries (AUS only has German for instance)
For France we are looking at when all there 5-6 vassels will be annexed the natural way.
Castille should not have Aragon as vassel, that will happen in 1476 or so if i recall correctly.
But all 3 countries are somewhat larger than the rest at the beginning, so perhaps starting with fewer cash.
Remember that we all start with 1/1/1/1 so kicking all the AI's isn't that easy. They all cheat and wield large armies, just look at the game we played monday, where Austria/Lombardia had 80.000 troops against me. I could support something like 30.000 at the same time. Took me 10 years and all my cash to win the war. So the AI's won't be gone after the first session, i'm rather sure of that.
Playable nations should be Portugal, Castile, France, England, Denmark/Sweden, BB/Poland, Austria, Venice, Oe and Muscowy. This way nobody can expand wildly without hitting some human player. Not all 10 need to be taken thou, 6-8 players would be fine too.
But when you compare the 10 nations, you'll see that ENG/FRA/CAS are much larger from the beginning, and some of them even with great leaders from the beginning. They will need some kinda of toning down.
I've got something like this in mind for edits:
- Leadercreation from the beginning for all
- Aprox 1000d from start (less for some)
- Cores in all primeculture provinses (which means several nations will have overlapsing cores)
- More culture for some countries (AUS only has German for instance)
A few thoughts of mine on some comments I read in this thread:
- Castille. Don't think Aragon should be a vassal, they'll become too big and too strong way too soon. Rather, if possible, have someone play Aragon and cooperate with Castille untill the Iberian Wedding.
- France and England, with the latter probably being strongest, are both majors right away - as the only nations. Limits to their initial expansion should be issued if other player nations is to remain competitive. The same applies to OE as well, to an extent.
- Creating more deflation events could be necessary. Infra 5 is FAR away in a 1337 start... and tech progression will generally be slow.
- Castille. Don't think Aragon should be a vassal, they'll become too big and too strong way too soon. Rather, if possible, have someone play Aragon and cooperate with Castille untill the Iberian Wedding.
- France and England, with the latter probably being strongest, are both majors right away - as the only nations. Limits to their initial expansion should be issued if other player nations is to remain competitive. The same applies to OE as well, to an extent.
- Creating more deflation events could be necessary. Infra 5 is FAR away in a 1337 start... and tech progression will generally be slow.
Hive said:
An idea to deal with France/Spanish/English uberness (if Castile gets Aragon-as having aragon requires maybe too many players) is to limit those 3 western powers from say crossing the Rhine or Po before 1500 but leave them free to amuse themselves by attacking eachother.
Hive said:
Restricting those two to their core provinces till 1500 might be an idea, but that could become quite boring for both of them if they secure there land early. Perhaps Burgundy could be played to give France some competition, with an option to become Holland later. The vassals could also be freed and set up in a couple of allainces to stop the huge hordes that France can command if necessary.
England is much harder to limit without editting how much tax there provinces produce or by resticting them to the Home Isles.
Hive said:
Putting a high deflation (1 or 2 %) as an AAR reward can be done to assuage the time it will take to get to Infra 5, although everyone will be on the samish inflation and the game is still playable at rather high levels of inflation.
We could replace England with Scotland and Castile with Aragon. France we could strip of all it's vassels.
Aladar said:
:rofl: :rofl:
Are you enlisting for Scotland???? :rofl:
OK no problemo I want to be France :rofl:
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Dr Bob said:
Great ideas all in all!!! Well I agree with the most and I should add one more thing; let's have player for Porto too. With Venice and BB around it will create balance. Restrict English expansion to max 5 provinces on continent. All in all deleting England from the game only because we start 82 years early seems stupidest idea of it all. Sry Ali, no offense intended. I suggest you should take England if you are so scared of it, but deleting it have no historical sense imo...
Aladar said:
...but if you go this way I also suggest replacing France with Provence. It will be extremely funny to watch this game since 1500+ nobody on the west will have any event or leader. If, on the other hand you want such game let's replace Austria with Croatia and I'll play Croatia
- no leaders throughout the history too and no events also, but let's rock... Also OE should be replaced with Mameluks and Russia with Novgorod. Think about replacement for BB and Sweden and let's play weirdest game ever - I'm not against it but having France against Scotland is .....
Nothing is for sure yet, we are still one ideaexchangestage. And so far we are getting a lot of ideas
Scotland already has cores in all Ireland and Northengland, and would have cores in Bretagne as well. Could be fun.
Leaders can be created, so that's not a real problem, as long as it's the same for all.
Scotland already has cores in all Ireland and Northengland, and would have cores in Bretagne as well. Could be fun.
Leaders can be created, so that's not a real problem, as long as it's the same for all.
Hello, let me introduce myself first. I'm a 19year old guy from Croatia (Kutina ) and I have been playing Paradox games for a few years now. I only haven't played CK but I plan to buy it. Obviously I like EU2 the most and I would like to join a multiplayer game. I am an experienced SP player but I don't have much experience in MP (I have played HOI2 in multiplayer). So if you are open to newcomers I'd like you to join you in a game. AoI 1337 is fine by me.
) and I have been playing Paradox games for a few years now. I only haven't played CK but I plan to buy it. Obviously I like EU2 the most and I would like to join a multiplayer game. I am an experienced SP player but I don't have much experience in MP (I have played HOI2 in multiplayer). So if you are open to newcomers I'd like you to join you in a game. AoI 1337 is fine by me.
SaberDancer said:Hello, let me introduce myself first. I'm a 19year old guy from Croatia (Kutina
Dobro dosao iako ovo nije igra za pocetnike!!!
Welcome!!!
Hmmmm for now Scotland is available - are you interested?
Dobro slipowich Peacekeepers favorite.
Sure you can join. That's make 5 players, so a few more would be good.
Feel free to send ideas for edits, which is what we are doing at the moment.
Peacekeepers favorite.Sure you can join. That's make 5 players, so a few more would be good.
Feel free to send ideas for edits, which is what we are doing at the moment.
ofcourse.. I'm just a random passer-by... but if you're *really* willing to make an effort of editing during the game, you *could* award people with "event points" to be spent on edits (so that they could create their own "Welsh act of Union" "Chambers of Reunion", explorers, generals etc.)
Similar to what some games used (Throne of Heaven 1 and 2.. and some others, I believe **69 [you know who] proposed something similar)
you could award points for, for example:
RP,
warfare,
including negative edits (loss of cash, MP, whatever)
Similar to what some games used (Throne of Heaven 1 and 2.. and some others, I believe **69 [you know who] proposed something similar)
you could award points for, for example:
RP,
warfare,
including negative edits (loss of cash, MP, whatever)
I never really were hooked on this "write an AAR and get a bonus". Should be enough that you play well and use the diplomatic channels.
I was hoping that we could keep most edits to those made pre-starting, and then only what diplomacy between nations would bring, kinda like the Chill-rules.
I was hoping that we could keep most edits to those made pre-starting, and then only what diplomacy between nations would bring, kinda like the Chill-rules.
Well, I'm not sure that England or France is too strong. Both countries start at war with each other (if I remember correctly) and England isn't in such a great situation. England is in a war against Scotland and France with its vassals. Other countries would in that time expand and become stronger. Maybe if we play a test game (just one session) to see if there are big differences in power. Also I'm for limiting expanding in continental Europe for both England and France for first 50 years.
I forgot to write my ICQ .
Well, my ICQ is 99-527-659. You can contact me there (I'm free for a test game tonight)
.Well, my ICQ is 99-527-659. You can contact me there (I'm free for a test game tonight)
Okay, this is what i've come up with so far.
Day and time: Monday 19.00 - 23.00 CET
Scenario: AoI 2.5 1337
Difficulty: Very Hard
Aggresiveness: Weakling
Players: Up to 8
Nations to be played: England, France, Castile, Denmark, Bradenburg, Austria, Muscowy and OE.
Starting cash: England 200, France & Castile 400, all others 1000.
Edits carried out pregame:
- England looses all cores in France, but not French culture
- Albanian culture set to Slavonic, Armenia culture set to Turkish.
- 1000d to all others
- France looses Normandy, Orleans, Bourbonnais, Auvergne (leaving only Provance) as vassel
- Denmark gains cores in Småland, Vestergotland, Svealand, Bergslagen, Gästrikland, Västerbotten and Finland.
- Brandenburg gains cores in Poznan, Silesia, Erz, Sachsen and Anhalt.
Rules:
- If you want to dow a vassal nation always dow the overlord.
(If the Vassal is a player himself, this rule doesn't apply)
(If the Vassal declares war, a human defender need not declare war upon the overlord)
- Galleys are only allowed in Europe. The Canary isles in the south, along the northcoast of africa and all the mediterrainian. Up along Eire to Norway. Iceland not included.
- All maptrading allowed with humans, but not with AI.
- Han, Cantonese and Japanese culture Unavailable till 1675
- Only 3 Units per Peace between alliances.
If you have a CB on demanded province: 0,5
Other European province: 1
CoT: 2 (Worldwide, only 1 if a core)
Colonies 0,2
- All edits are possible (cores/ships too). The edit must be made public through the thread.
- Holding 75% of a foreign cultures provinses for a straigt 50 years will allow you to adopt the culture. A maximum of 2 new cultures can be added.
- New cultures will be lost if you control less than 75% of the provinses for a straigt 50 years.
-If a country drops, he will be picked up at jan unless he is at war, at which point he will be picked up immediately.
Don't be gamey and keep it chill
Day and time: Monday 19.00 - 23.00 CET
Scenario: AoI 2.5 1337
Difficulty: Very Hard
Aggresiveness: Weakling
Players: Up to 8
Nations to be played: England, France, Castile, Denmark, Bradenburg, Austria, Muscowy and OE.
Starting cash: England 200, France & Castile 400, all others 1000.
Edits carried out pregame:
- England looses all cores in France, but not French culture
- Albanian culture set to Slavonic, Armenia culture set to Turkish.
- 1000d to all others
- France looses Normandy, Orleans, Bourbonnais, Auvergne (leaving only Provance) as vassel
- Denmark gains cores in Småland, Vestergotland, Svealand, Bergslagen, Gästrikland, Västerbotten and Finland.
- Brandenburg gains cores in Poznan, Silesia, Erz, Sachsen and Anhalt.
Rules:
- If you want to dow a vassal nation always dow the overlord.
(If the Vassal is a player himself, this rule doesn't apply)
(If the Vassal declares war, a human defender need not declare war upon the overlord)
- Galleys are only allowed in Europe. The Canary isles in the south, along the northcoast of africa and all the mediterrainian. Up along Eire to Norway. Iceland not included.
- All maptrading allowed with humans, but not with AI.
- Han, Cantonese and Japanese culture Unavailable till 1675
- Only 3 Units per Peace between alliances.
If you have a CB on demanded province: 0,5
Other European province: 1
CoT: 2 (Worldwide, only 1 if a core)
Colonies 0,2
- All edits are possible (cores/ships too). The edit must be made public through the thread.
- Holding 75% of a foreign cultures provinses for a straigt 50 years will allow you to adopt the culture. A maximum of 2 new cultures can be added.
- New cultures will be lost if you control less than 75% of the provinses for a straigt 50 years.
-If a country drops, he will be picked up at jan unless he is at war, at which point he will be picked up immediately.
Don't be gamey and keep it chill
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