Use of diplomat should cost ducats

[Canute VII]

During buildt up of spy networks and improve relations etc., diplomats should cost an amount of ducats, depending on the total development of the target country. Show this in "diplomatic expenses" in the ecenomy / budget tab. I think a maintenance slider would not be necessary, though, since players would probably always push it to "full maintenance". I'd love to have some more trade-offs between diplomacy and other game mechanics, ducats seem to be the right way to introduce these.

 

[Woifee]

Punishs the small and benefit the big Countries. Not sure it's a good Idea.

 

[Freudia]

This would probably make an overwhelming number of starts not playable.

 

[Canute VII]

The small may concentrate their efforts, often only the next big country is of prime importance to them. The big will want to spread their efforts and hence incur higher costs.

However, I believe it depends on calibrating the cost so they will be manageable for countries of different size and wealth, I agree. Maybe make the cost depend not only on the target's total development BUT ALSO own total development. (from the wealthy more contribution in form of bribes and presents would be expected, and also the big would expect more). Or factor in government rank (duchy, kindom, empire). So diplomacy between small countries would be cheap, diplomacy between big countries more involved.

Given that some countries may still not be treated fairly, maybe even the maintenance slider could be a way forward?

 

[Canute VII]

+ Scale the cost with .... corruption? ...diplo tech (inverse scale)? ...diplo tech differential between countries? ...reduce with diplo rep?

I mean: there are way to make this work.

 

[Woifee]

Would be much to complicated, to many aspects to consider for... what exactly?

Balance? No.

Historical? Maybe, not sure about that.

Gameplay? Not exactly.

The diplomatic actions you can do are already limited by the diplomats and diplomatic relations. Is there another necessary?

 

[Canute VII]

Would be much to complicated, to many aspects to consider for... what exactly?

Balance? No.

Historical? Maybe, not sure about that.

Gameplay? Not exactly.

The diplomatic actions you can do are already limited by the diplomats and diplomatic relations. Is there another necessary?

Limited by number of diplomats? Same argument would go for colonist, missionary ... And therefor I'd say: That is not exactly an argument at all.

Limited by diplo relation slots? Sure, but only in one particular aspect of diplomacy ie number of alliances, vassals, royal marriages, ... Pertaining to the outcome of diplo actions, not to the process.

Cost in ducats has its merits in that it reduces diplo spam and includes diplo actions into budgeting decisions and therefore makes right choices more important. It's rather a matter of tuning the cost so that its fair to all countries.

 

[Vulkandrache]

It's rather a matter of tuning the cost so that its fair to all countries.

Which is not possible.
The small countries are the ones with their entire existence hanging on their diplomats while the big guys are mainly using them to deal with AE.

If you make it a flat cost its either trivial for everyone and might aswell be removed, or you fuck over small countries.

If you make it depend on the targets DEV you fuck over small countries even harder while slowing the game down for big guys, which is really not what we need.

If you make is scale based on the DEV of both you have added a mechanic to the game for the sake of adding a mechanic to the game and not because it makes the game better.
You just proposed Corruption to be added. A flat cost for playing just to slow down the game.

Limited by number of diplomats? Same argument would go for colonist, missionary ... And therefor I'd say: That is not exactly an argument at all.

The number for each envoy is one of the most rigid limits in this entire game. Especially for Diplomats, i never have enough of them.
This is one aspect of the game where decision making is already there. We dont need another layer on top.

 

[Canute VII]

It makes the game better, because not sending a diplomat would be an option worth considering. Exactly the way, not sending a missionary/colonist is an option worth considering. Letting a diplomat idle (in special situations, for some time) currently has a cost to it, because we could do *something*, sending diplomats frantically around currently has no cost to it. This I demand to be chsnged.

 

[DDRJake]

This won't be happening.

 

[Canute VII]

This won't be happening.

I infer from this swift answer, that...
...my other suggestions (where I didn't receive answers) will be implemented very soon indeed!

Thx for the concise reply, however.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Using diplomats optimally (and the opportunity cost of failing to do so) is an important part of the game's strategy. Slapping a charge on it amounts to a skill equalizing change. We did more than enough of that with attrition!

 

[Buladelu]

I wonder what's the logic behind this proposal. Is this for realism sake? More sliders to manage?

 

[Canute VII]

***unconditional surrender*** (swedish midsommer sun glasses - they are simply the best - to hide my wet eyes)

 

[Thravid]

Would be much to complicated, to many aspects to consider for... what exactly?

Balance? No.

Historical? Maybe, not sure about that.

Gameplay? Not exactly.

The diplomatic actions you can do are already limited by the diplomats and diplomatic relations. Is there another necessary?

Exactly. This makes no historical sense.

If a whole unit of 1,000 Cavalry only cost something like 0,50 ducats a month, and that is 2,000 mouths to feed + armor and supplies, I would imagine sending 1 diplomat must be like 0,001 ducats or something, except if they tax the diplomats when entering the country which I don't think ever happens.

Stupid, historically inaccurate, unbalanced, WRONG idea.

 

[Canute VII]

Exactly. This makes no historical sense.

If a whole unit of 1,000 Cavalry only cost something like 0,50 ducats a month, and that is 2,000 mouths to feed + armor and supplies, I would imagine sending 1 diplomat must be like 0,001 ducats or something, except if they tax the diplomats when entering the country which I don't think ever happens.

Stupid, historically inaccurate, unbalanced, WRONG idea.

Well, although I thought the thread is closed:

***unconditional surrender*** (swedish midsommer sun glasses - they are simply the best - to hide my wet eyes)

...now I feel compelled to answer anyway.

I guess there are several issues with your interpretation:

1. Does one diplomat envoy really represent one single person?
2. If yes, how come that we are restricted to 3 diplomats at the beginning of the game? Are there only 3 guys who can do it regardless of how big our country is?
3. Would the cost for a diplomat represent a salary or would it represent the cost to engage in diplomacy (holding festivities, bribing, presents, ...)
4. .... etc. pp.

 

[Thravid]

Well, although I thought the thread is closed:

...now I feel compelled to answer anyway.

I guess there are several issues with your interpretation:

1. Does one diplomat envoy really represent one single person?
2. If yes, how come that we are restricted to 3 diplomats at the beginning of the game? Are there only 3 guys who can do it regardless of how big our country is?
3. Would the cost for a diplomat represent a salary or would it represent the cost to engage in diplomacy (holding festivities, bribing, presents, ...)
4. .... etc. pp.

1. No. Maybe 10.

2. -

3. Presents you can give on a national level. You are not going to bribe a king, at most a guard or something.

4. Overall it can't compare with the costs of an Army with thousands of men.

Your argument failed. You got rekt hard. Your idea is historically inaccurate, wrong, stupid, and counter-productive.

 

[Canute VII]

Matthew 7:1
Do not judge, or you will be judged.

1. No. Maybe 10.

2. -

3. Presents you can give on a national level. You are not going to bribe a king, at most a guard or something.

4. Overall it can't compare with the costs of an Army with thousands of men.

Your argument failed. You got rekt hard. Your idea is historically inaccurate, wrong, stupid, and counter-productive.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Matthew 7:1
Do not judge, or you will be judged.

Let's not quote story time! Besides, there are cases where it is useful/important to make judgments. However, if rational those are to be made on evidence, be the situation casual or serious.

That said, slinging insults as he did isn't useful or productive. Diplomat usage cost runs fundamentally against the skill required for optimizing their use (diplomat time is an important resource to optimized play), so penalizing good play runs at cross purposes from their present design. I wish it was a developer saying that instead of me, but we don't have a long history of explanations from developers consistent with implementation .