Vassal troops and their maintance

[unmerged(2456)]

In CK1 the King could call up his vassals troops and they would have to pay for them. This led to the exploit where because their was the no negative-gold for AI and the King didn't pay a dime for his vassal's troops he could wage a war for free.

Secondly, regardless of the realm laws or circumstances the ruler would always demand everyone ready their troops, even if they were a far-flung count in Greenland and they were fighting a 2-province count or they were a count with a duke liege and realm laws that did not allow the king to call directly on those counts.

In reality, the King shared most of the burden for the troops and had much less control over his vassals troops than his own in most types of feudalism. Even when he did have more control, he still couldn't just demand instant mobilization of an entire realm.

Finally on a related note, in early games of CK1 the highest rank/prestiged character took control of the combat before those with the highest marshall skill. Later this was changed to make it so the highest marshall skill would take over because too much mircomangement was happening, even though it wasn't historic and could lead to unhistoric results, such as the marshall getting claims where his liege should. What I would propose would be to make it so the highest marshall score determines the battle odds (the primary reason for brining the high-skilled marshal), but if anyone is of higher station is present all claims and events trigger on them.

Thus your brilliant strategist is only as smart as his reckless misguided warrior liege when he tells him to charge the oncoming knights with the small contingent light infantry who isn't being backed up.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

In the earlier versions of CK, vassals whose troops were used by the liege would start to lose loyalty after a while. This has been removed in a patch, because the AI couldn't handle it.

Now only a human player who is a vassal of the AI, will lose loyalty when his liege uses his troops.

I hope the effect will apply to all vassals again in CK2.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

In the earlier versions of CK, vassals whose troops were used by the liege would start to lose loyalty after a while. This has been removed in a patch, because the AI couldn't handle it.

Now only a human player who is a vassal of the AI, will lose loyalty when his liege uses his troops.

I hope the effect will apply to all vassals again in CK2.

Well the problem with that is that it'll just allow wars to be waged without anyone paying maintenance.

 

[Chamoisking]

The AI can't go into debt so whoever pay is just the same.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well the problem with that is that it'll just allow wars to be waged without anyone paying maintenance.

Well no, since if you used your vassals troops to long, your kingdom would fall apart because of all the vassals starting to rebel.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Well no, since if you used your vassals troops to long, your kingdom would fall apart because of all the vassals starting to rebel.

They might rebel, but they'd have no troops to rebel with if you mobilized them and didn't pay maintenance which increases the attrition rate.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

I think the simplest way to solve this would be to have whoever commands the troops pay their maintenance.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

They might rebel, but they'd have no troops to rebel with if you mobilized them and didn't pay maintenance which increases the attrition rate.

When a vassal rebels you immediately lose the regiment(s) from the vassal that rebels, the regiment returned to the control of his ruler.

And since it was usually more then 1 vassal rebelling at the same time you could lose an army, who immediately started to fight your troops.

I think the simplest way to solve this would be to have whoever commands the troops pay their maintenance.

Indeed it is

 

[unmerged(2456)]

When a vassal rebels you immediately lose the regiment(s) from the vassal that rebels, the regiment returned to the control of his ruler.

And since it was usually more then 1 vassal rebelling at the same time you could lose an army, who immediately started to fight your troops.

Not disputing that. I'm saying that because you'd have not been paying maintance for several months (it takes a few months for most nobles to revolt) their armies would be depleted and it can be exploited by then having the player raise their own troops from their own demesne and quash those rebel vassals and demand their lands, ie bypassing normal means of getting the troops and using the games mechanics on not paying maintenance to weaken your vassal's forces before you engage them.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

All troops should be paid for, in this case there should be no more 'freebies'.

 

[unmerged(133776)]

On a related question. Is the 'Realm Duress' event tied to how low your Vassal's loyalty is (IE-it has to be both below a certain level and above a certain level)?

Several times, I've spammed a Rebellious/Rival vassal (mainly a vassal I really want to get rid of or I want their land) with requests to raise his troops, just to knock his loyalty down (and keep it at 0 loyalty) so he would rebel and DOW me? Doing it this way, I've yet to have one of them give me Realm Duress. Not sure if it's because I keep a 'mobilize' request at all times posted to them? It's also possible I've just been lucky and not gotten the RD event.

 

[Negru Voda]

I think the best thing would be: instead of asking for mobilization, as for declaration of war.

That way, your dukes will declare war on your side against your enemies. This also resolves the many other exploits of the CK wars, where enemies would go around your vassals even though you had your troops right there.

Also I suppose that there should be a, dare I say, HoI3 approach to warfare. In which you directly control your troops, but can only set strategic goals for your vassals.

So you Duke of Pudding will take the Cake Province, while I do other things.

This would also simulate the lack of direct control that overlords had on their vassal's armies.