Vassals should not wait for their doom when being invaded.

[121413]

My vassal is about to lose his territory, yet he has an army of 10,000 men. Even when he becomes a beggar, this army remains inactive. Dude, this is truly absurd. If a vassal is about to lose his territory, he should fight alongside his lord, or at the very least, his army should be under the lord's command to ensure the security of his territory. What I mean is, the role of a vassal now is merely to serve as a tool to provide taxes and a group of thugs. When the lord intends to deprive them of their land, they will mercilessly strike back at the lord, but when their territory is about to be seized by another country, they only wait for their doom.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

Yes, vassals only contributing levies and taxes instead of participating in wars has long been complained about, but paradox sadly does nothing to fix it

 

[Blk82]

But how would anyone be able to win a war against a king or emperor tier character if vassals and vassals of vassals joined a war? Each county can have 3 layers of vassals, and a multi county CB could bring 3 different vassals per county. And that creates the player exploit of sticking border counts under random dukes, so any multi-county CB brings in a whole swarm of vassals. The current solution is less worse than the gridlock of defenders have double army sizes.

 

[121413]

The armies of vassals can be commanded by the lords, while the vassals themselves serve as generals or knights. Of course, vassals will only do so when they are on the verge of losing their territories; offensive wars have nothing to do with them. This is the simplest solution, but the real Middle Ages were far more complex than this.

 

[121413]

But how would anyone be able to win a war against a king or emperor tier character if vassals and vassals of vassals joined a war? Each county can have 3 layers of vassals, and a multi county CB could bring 3 different vassals per county. And that creates the player exploit of sticking border counts under random dukes, so any multi-county CB brings in a whole swarm of vassals. The current solution is less worse than the gridlock of defenders have double army sizes.

If an enemy invades a duchy, all the armies of the count and duke of that duchy will be under the unified command of the king.

 

[Aarkonia]

My vassal is about to lose his territory, yet he has an army of 10,000 men. Even when he becomes a beggar, this army remains inactive. Dude, this is truly absurd. If a vassal is about to lose his territory, he should fight alongside his lord, or at the very least, his army should be under the lord's command to ensure the security of his territory. What I mean is, the role of a vassal now is merely to serve as a tool to provide taxes and a group of thugs. When the lord intends to deprive them of their land, they will mercilessly strike back at the lord, but when their territory is about to be seized by another country, they only wait for their doom.

Won't work in a game like this.
If Vassals and their vassals join a war that means that their allies join the war to, meaning a rough triple to ten times the army is suddenly against you or your attacker depending on the role, with holy war kingdom cbs having the potential to drag you or ur attacker into a war where one side suddenly has 20x the army it showed because e.g. 30 count 6 duke's and a king + their allies (60+ additional rulers with 2 alliances per ruler) suddenly join in
Would make the game more "realistic" while crushing it's worth because Noone wants to buy a game where he has to scheme and war for decades to just get one county

 

[Emperor 1997]

Won't work in a game like this.
If Vassals and their vassals join a war that means that their allies join the war to, meaning a rough triple to ten times the army is suddenly against you or your attacker depending on the role, with holy war kingdom cbs having the potential to drag you or ur attacker into a war where one side suddenly has 20x the army it showed because e.g. 30 count 6 duke's and a king + their allies (60+ additional rulers with 2 alliances per ruler) suddenly join in
Would make the game more "realistic" while crushing it's worth because Noone wants to buy a game where he has to scheme and war for decades to just get one county

It does work pretty well, with an Mod, so this is something the Devs can do it too.

There are multiple Mods, who allow Vassals to join their Liege Wars and it works very good.
It makes the Game a lot more realistic, + you should think 2x about it, if the War is really required or not.

Also, only the War Leader can call their Allies, Allies can not call their own Allies to the War.

 

[Aarkonia]

It makes the Game a lot more realistic

, only the War Leader can call their Allies,

.

It does work pretty well, with an Mod, so this is something the Devs can do it too.

There are multiple Mods, who allow Vassals to join their Liege Wars and it works very good.

Yeah and I'm pretty sure none of these mods have the AI working properly anymore with these AI's now failing to calculate if a war is possible to win or not, resulting in barely any wars starting anymore or same amount with the AI losing nearly every one because the AI either calculates to not start a war because Ruler+allies+vassals will always result in it not meeting the threshold to win or the AI not being able to see the vassals and thus going into a suicide war

 

[DiabloDeVille]

.


Yeah and I'm pretty sure none of these mods have the AI working properly anymore with these AI's now failing to calculate if a war is possible to win or not, resulting in barely any wars starting anymore or same amount with the AI losing nearly every one because the AI either calculates to not start a war because Ruler+allies+vassals will always result in it not meeting the threshold to win or the AI not being able to see the vassals and thus going into a suicide war

You can run them in observer if you want, people have long promoted the mods and said they liked them

 

[Aarkonia]

You can run them in observer if you want, people have long promoted the mods and said they liked them

And see there: In ~70% of cases any CB targeting a kingdom fails, depending on the attackers realm duchies fail from 10-90% with kings and emperors having no difficulty since a duchies vassals mean nothing to it while other duchie tier rulers can barely take anything now, since a duchie cb will mean the defender gets up to its entire realm fighting in the war + allies (not even mattering if these vassals are loyal or not) while the attacker can only bring his allies thus nearly always losing the war
Kingdom tier cbs on the other hand always fail for the attacker if hes also a king since the defender gets over a dozen pseudo-allies + reg allies and the attacker only reg allies
Woow what great mod, may aswell just create an easy setting granting the player 100% of vassal levies and you'd have the same system and the purpose of the player never losing a defence war also applies

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The way I've always thought this should work is if a vassal stands to lose land in a war, they should always and automatically become a participant. This makes attacking another realm for land become more difficult and dangerous the more land is being targeted, and allows the top liege to be safely nerfed to substantially lower total manpower capacity.

On the flip side, vassals that stand to gain land should also always participate in the war. There should also be the ability to promise land to your vassals to get them to participate in a war of aggression. You should also have the ability to use hooks to get vassals to join wars. And vassal contributions should be updated to include MAA and knight contributions to the liege (probably with a percentage reduction) so they're much more appealing compared to raising tax contributions.