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Oh, of course not. But it's not just Atlases, there's Zeuses, Highlanders, King Crabs...gotta have some variety.
I'm not so sure I agree.
In Sword and Dagger, Ardan Sortek questions his friend Hanse Davions questionable methods if not his character from the beginning.
Plus the Haseks and other similar nobles.
All the factions have always been grey in aggregate if you know where to look.
Vic is a hard one, at times you want to hate how he was written at other times he's perhaps one of the most well written characters it all seemed to really depend on WHO was writing him. A lot of the arguments here and even on the battletech forums always come down to oh but he never seems to loose or oh he has a nepollian complex.. or oh he's too smart.. but at the same time you have to remember he is the son of the Fox he grew up weathly and rich and educated by some of the best military minds in the IS. He faces losses over his life time that are brutal heck he didn't even know he had a son to the women he loved deeply until just before he died.
Vic to me isn't so much a Mary Sue character as much as a tragic hero, like Kai he would have much preferred i think to simply have been a military man and have none of the extra crap dumped on him but in the end he wasn't born that instead he was born twin to a manic
And really if we want to sit down and claim some one or anothers mary sue i think we could do it with 99% of the characters in the novels including Justin Allard, a number of Kurita's, a number of Liao's .. etc etc
In the end though Vic at least lived by what he believed in right up until another group of plotting noble SOBS got him killed Seems to be his lot in life.
Vic to me isn't so much a Mary Sue character as much as a tragic hero, like Kai he would have much preferred i think to simply have been a military man and have none of the extra crap dumped on him but in the end he wasn't born that instead he was born twin to a manic
And really if we want to sit down and claim some one or anothers mary sue i think we could do it with 99% of the characters in the novels including Justin Allard, a number of Kurita's, a number of Liao's .. etc etc
In the end though Vic at least lived by what he believed in right up until another group of plotting noble SOBS got him killed
Seems to be his lot in life.
I think the problem is a general tendency for works in the Young Adult market to make your characters super broad and simple. I mean teens aren't that dumb.
Sadly sometimes they thought up interesting ideas, and then hammered the absolute crap out of it. Kai feeling inadequete compared to his super famous dad? A good angle for a character. But then they milked it to the point of making him insufferable.
Sadly sometimes they thought up interesting ideas, and then hammered the absolute crap out of it. Kai feeling inadequete compared to his super famous dad? A good angle for a character. But then they milked it to the point of making him insufferable.
True, For all the whining bout his sueness, Victor has his fair share of character flaws. For example, he tended to isolate himself due to not wanting to be surrounded by sycophants, but it also meant he kept his distance from a lot of people who would have supported him. Also, a Mary sue wouldn't have lost their realm to their younger sister while fighting a hard fought military campaign, nor would their offer of peace be rejected by the clans, and they certainly wouldn't have renounced their claim to the throne after fighting a bitter four year long civil war.
Victors faults and failings are pretty much always presented as essentially him being too good and noble. At least as I remember it, it's been a long time.
Smarter or not, the way Katherine's inner thoughts are written in the last few Civil War books makes her look like a caricature of a villain.
Then again, at least she didn't take a year long holiday from waging a war because she was heart broken.
That would have required her to HAVE a heart to break.
except thats not true,Hanse had his schemes countered and blunted on more then a few occasions the war of 3039 being the most notable.
i both agree and disagree with some of what all of you are saying .... but i also feel that is because your trying to reconcile the game with the novels and because someone tried to write up rules to duplicate what happened in the novels makes it even more improbable .... i love the space opera story of Victor, Morgan, Kai, Phelan, ... hell almost anyone from the novels that the book focused on could be a mary sue depending on how you view them they all ended up doing something improbable and not according to the rules but thats what makes a great story. but even though i loved the stories about them when i played the table top game other than backgrounds and flavor i would never in my most wildest dreams consider doing or even trying to do what they did because at the end of the day thats what the author did and duplicating those "feats" would have just seemed like so much plagerism, and remember for everyone of you that hates the mary sues (victor morgan kai phelan sun tzu hanse aiden pryde marthe pryde ulric kerensky focht etc and etc lol just remember that someone else loves them to pieces and again they are just stories about the nobles and upper class of battletech ... which oddly enough is what we are playing with this iteration of the game ... anyway thats my 2 cents worth and im sure someone might take me down a peg or two but thats ok i like differing opinions. although you might want to consider this .... if there wasnt those mary sues (see afor mentioned names) none of you would have anything to talk about because then it would have been like reading a technical manual about different battles and court events that took place on some planet in some sector of somewhere in the known galaxy.... those same mary sues are what made it more than a monologue