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Deus Vult

Is this the call for a Crusade? How long are the Crusades going to last? Is there any way to stop them for 50 years or so. Maybe if the pope lost prestige for all the piety that was lost by the Kings of Europe, then we could have him stop the damn crusades after the first decade or so.
 
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they continue, and atm its WAD
 
Well, the problem isn't really that the "crusader era" lasts for a very long time, the problem is that there is only one way to counter that damn piety loss and that is crusading. Being any of the larger kingdoms you'll basicly have to plan for crusades immediately, and continue to carry them out just to avoid getting negative piety.

Something must be put in the game to counter the piety loss besides the church donations(which is capped at 1%).
 
Varyar said:
Well, the problem isn't really that the "crusader era" lasts for a very long time, the problem is that there is only one way to counter that damn piety loss and that is crusading. Being any of the larger kingdoms you'll basicly have to plan for crusades immediately, and continue to carry them out just to avoid getting negative piety.

Something must be put in the game to counter the piety loss besides the church donations(which is capped at 1%).
Click to expand...

This probably isn't the right forum, but to continue what's already here on the theory it's gonna get moved anyway...

I'm beginning to think that Crusading is too easy already (FYI - hard/aggressive as Duke of Bavaria).

Capturing one lousy province and giving some dumb bastard a Bishopric nets around 250 piety. With donations at +0.7 I net under -1.0/mo, which means I need to make one Bishipric every 20 years. If your piety loss is much larger, then you're big enough to take more, and even make a move on Jerusalem. Plus, once the buildings completion bonus bug is gone (Templar Building = +20, which sets you up for nearly 2 years) it's going to make Crusading totally optional for all but the biggest Kingdoms, or Crusader-status Kings.

IMHO Crusading needs to be altered:

1 - Crusades far shorter (e.g. 10 years on, 10 years off).
2 - Non-Crusading penalty much higher (e.g. >5x the current piety penalty).
3 - Some recognition that you're trying (e.g. mobilized >50% of demesne province regiments and at war with heathen knocks off half the penalty)(yes, it's exploitable, but not easily, and it treats the player playing properly, properly, which is important, too).
4 - Higher rewards for taking non-holy land provinces. Right now it's negligible. Jerusalem is the prize, sure, but other places need rescuing as well, especially with a big boost to the penalty.

OT - More complex rules, and some existing rules, can be handled by "advisor" pop-ups. Make the Diocesan Bishop tell the player when he's not getting credit for Crusading, and why. Heck, gives him a reason to exist.
 
I have been rather upset about the large peanlty to my piety from time to time, but i don't think it will be that much of a problem if a few changes are made.

The onetime bonus from building something, of course, needs to be fixed, but i am pretty sure that it will be done in due time.
If i could just inherit half or a fourth of the piety of the king that went before the new one, it would be way easier and not much of a problem. I just tried losing over 8k of piety after beating both mongol armies with one king, and then when he dies right after, i actually has to go out again.
Maybe the donations should be capped somewhat higher.
Should it become much harder to take pagan/muslim provinces, then the bonus should probably also be increased a bit.
 
Best way to change it is to inherit peity, prestige from your father. Afterall, you inherit the badboy rating. Although in either case I don't think you should inherit all of it but just a portion.

Second thing is that your crusading expectation should be zero when you are actually crusading. If you complete a successful crusade then it should not kick back in until the next ruler succeeds. It's unrealistic to expect a ruler to go on crusade more than once. Also, vassals loyalty should not drop as much when keeping their troops in the field when you are on crusade. I went with vassals of 100% loyalty, to several rebellions in only 3 years of crusading. The crusade was one province away from being completed. Now I get more badboy from bringing my rebellious vassals back into the fold.

Also, adjust the crusading expectation down a bit. Once you finally become someone important the expectation goes way up and like many Kings in the game, you end up w/ negative peity. Needs to be reworked.

Also, I don't think my BB was adjusted any after my successful crusade. That's okay though, cause I adjusted it in the save game file. I also took away all the BB I got from reconquering my rebellious vassals.
 
Personally I reckon there should be a "launch crusade" action somewhere. When you activate it, you instantly become at war with certain Muslim countries (particularly those occupying Jerusalem). You can also add other countries/shiekdoms to the war list. While this is happening the Crusade expectations are set to 0.

However to avoid exploiting it, another counter is set - time without a battle against the targets of your crusade. If a certain amount of time (say, a year) goes by, and you haven't fought them, or do not control any of their territories, then the crusade automatically ends, and back to Crusade expectations we go (perhaps even with a large penalty for letting it lapse - perhaps twice the negative piety that you would normally have gained during that year).

Basically something to force you to crusade, but that relieves the expectation while you are.
 
My idea is to give a lot of the muslim provinces ongoing piety bonuses(like holding Jerusalem would give you .4-.5 piety per month), but these bonuses would only apply during a Crusade.

M
 
crusading is the main reason why i find this game too easy(even 'on VH). As we all know crusades last, hell knows how long, and it forces human players to engagne in pagan and infidel annexation frenzy. Same time AI players just sit there and collect negative piety.
This means that in mid 12th century there is no option but to wage war and only war(because expectations rise)...Same time i would like to spend some quality time with my family and expand my european possesions, but that is not possible because of the never-ending crusades.
This system really needs to be reworked because as of now there just ain't enough lands to conqure in late 12th/early 13th century.
 
Ancient Warrior said:
Also, I don't think my BB was adjusted any after my successful crusade. That's okay though, cause I adjusted it in the save game file. I also took away all the BB I got from reconquering my rebellious vassals.
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Why should it?

The way to reduce BB via Crusading (in 1.02) is to create new crusader states in the conquered lands (giving away land reduces BB) - a great source of BB reduction.
 
I thought about the "Activate Crusades" option, but in truth it's already there. Just need to take some coding into account if possible to determine that if you're "AT WAR" status is with a Pagan or Muslim nation. If you're at war with one of those, then you are in fact Crusading, thus no need for an official "CRUSADE" button.
 
Azugal said:
That leaves itself open to exploitation though. Declare war on some Muslim country that's thousands of miles away, and then just ignore them.
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Until they come knocking at your door, that is. :D

All I want is a way to maintain or at least limit loss of piety without crusading, if nothing else simply because it crushes the AI. There's a reason why the king of Germany, for example, manages to get -5000 piety(which pisses off his vassals).
 
Everytime my prestige decreases under -50 or so, I get an event called "Your sins have not gone unnoticed"
As Meath I can not spend a lot of money without becoming "bankrott", so I have to choose "He is a false pope anyway" what gives me -100 or so prestige. I think this is a way to get -5000 as well. My prestige is about -1800. Luckily I need and have no vassals ;-)
 
PontifexMaximus said:
Everytime my prestige decreases under -50 or so, I get an event called "Your sins have not gone unnoticed"
As Meath I can not spend a lot of money without becoming "bankrott", so I have to choose "He is a false pope anyway" what gives me -100 or so prestige. I think this is a way to get -5000 as well. My prestige is about -1800. Luckily I need and have no vassals ;-)
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ahum,

this is not the way you should see it. The event is more intended to people who have become the pariah of the catholic church like heretics and kinslayers, they can get their stigma removed at great cost,

you can always visit the church once and take the piety bonus,
 
here's an idea:

the game is called crusader kings, so it should be about kings crusading or kings ruling crusaders, and it should pretty much involve crusading in the gameplay, so, instead of bitching about the crusades ruining their piety, your rulers might do some crusading themselves instead of plotting and scheming against their fellow christians...
 
Brownbeard said:
here's an idea:

the game is called crusader kings, so it should be about kings crusading or kings ruling crusaders, and it should pretty much involve crusading in the gameplay, so, instead of bitching about the crusades ruining their piety, your rulers might do some crusading themselves instead of plotting and scheming against their fellow christians...
Click to expand...


You make alot of assumptions. Even when Crusading it is difficult to MAINTAIN your current piety, much less improve it.

I like the notion of expectation penalties, however, there needs to be a far better balancing of how the piety is awarded/penalized. When you gain the Crusader trait your expectations are five fold higher. Thus you must Crusade (as you should be in this game anyhow). the problem is that as you gain more and more land your expectations go higher and higher.

Hell, if you conquered all the pagan/sacren land can you imagine what your expectation penalty would be?

How would you counter the expectation loss then? Yeah, I know, create enough Bishoporics to shoot your piety through the roof. Hell, make all your conqured lands homes to Bishops. Then what? Your still loosing piety. What about your heir and his heir? They (and everyone else in Europe) would be loosing piety and have few options to remedy it.

Instead why not have the expectations relative to the amount of land that is conquerable? Or relative to the success of your fellow Christians on their crusades. Certain lands should be worth something for "protecting" it from the angry sacrens mustering outside of Jerusalem, poised to take it back.

Maybe instead of a prestige bonus for Bishops who are your vassals yo shold get a piety bonus?

If you control the Pope, maybe a piety bonus there?

Anyhow, these are just a few ideas. I go more. My point really being that the Crusade thing needs some extra tweaking. :)
 
Have to say I mostly agree with Brownbeard (could be a bit more polite though). I do think there shouldn't be constant crusading, but instead have targetted campaigns (eg Pope calls for a crusade to liberate Jerusalem, by 1120 or whatever - bit like a mission in EU). If the crusade is successful then bonus for whoever captured Jerusalem and maybe a special name (eg Couer de Lion or Liberator of the Holy Land or something) - the crusade is over but then another one is annonced at a future date, with a different target. If the crusdade is unsuccessful then every catholic ruler gets a prestige hit relative to their power. During the crusade anybody not at war with at least one muslim state loses piety, and if you are at war then you still lose piety for every province that hasn't mobilised its regiment.
 
here's an idea, try finishing the crusades and see what happens to your crusading expectations... there are none

here's what my uncivilized most christian king of croatia discovered: crusading expectations are proportional to size of demesne(primary), number(or size of vassals, not sure which), and the number and priority of heathen controled territory(near east a priority).

so, once you control over half of the world, and there are only a few heathen provinces, your crusading expectations are between 0 an 1 per month of piety loss, and after the year end of taking the last heathen province the crusades end.

why are you complaining about me? :wacko:

this was directed at your in-game rulers. geez. nothing personal.

isn't king of jerusalem a title nice enough? btw. the habsburg still hold it, right?
 
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