Wallachia or Moldavia, and Romania

[Defiant477]

Hello,

I would like some help in playing Wallachia to achieve my ultimate goal in Victoria 2 - to form Romania. Unfortunately this seems to be extremely difficult, and I have been unable at getting past the first hurdle to break free of the Ottomans. I did consider playing another nation, but somehow my heart keeps taking me back to Romania.

I have read through the forums and searched for answers, and I've compiled a few options for breaking free as a satellite nation. Note that I only have Victoria 2, but I might be interested in getting the expansions as well, so please let me know if there are notable changes with the expansions that would affect my objective.

So in this thread, I'd like to ask questions, request advice, and discuss how to break free of the Ottoman Empire. That's right, we haven't even yet gotten to forming Romania. Please make sure to explain how an action might be achieved - I've helped guide the discussion through my questions. But it kind of annoys me how the Wiki for example talks about making an independence revolt without any explanation as to how that's actually achieved.

Cheats: Please note that I'd rather not use cheats, load up the savegame as another country, or tinker with the game files. There has to be a way in-game to do this, so I'd like to aim for that. If I use "alternative" methods to break free, then I might as well remove the massive industrial handicap, award myself influence over the cores needed for Romania, and so on. It kind of breaks immersion.

Option 1: Become a Great Power

I read somewhere that if you become a great power, you automatically lose your satellite status, and this is even a peaceful transition. You have to stay at a great power ranking for at least 180 days before you become one, since the great power you just knocked off can actually get back their status in that time.

This is a slightly unrealistic option historically speaking, but I have managed to get close by somewhat "bee-lining" the culture prestige techs. I could only get to 10th (I think even 9th for a moment), but diseases killing 20% of my population and a poor industry held me back. Fortunately, I could fake military power by creating a whole bunch of generals, since your military power goes up by 2 for each general you have.

Question: I heard that nations with only one state are not allowed to become great powers. Is this true? Is Wallachia doomed to remain a secondary satellite even if it's 1st in rankings, because it owns only one state (composed of 6 provinces)? Would it then be necessary to grab another state somehow? I don't know how I can achieve that, since during an Ottoman-Russian war, all the land I was capturing was given to the Ottomans.

Advice: This option might be the best, since it's nice and peaceful, allowing me to focus on my industry and avoid dealing with relatively tough opponents, and because it's necessary to become a great power before you can form Romania. What would you recommend if I wanted to pursue this option? Should I completely bee-line for all the prestige-invention culture technologies?

Option 2: Militant Rebellion

I've also heard that you can have rebels and militants take over and depose your government, which would break your satellite status with the Ottoman Empire.

Question: How do you increase militancy and rebels? Do you just tax people 100% and hope they start starving and wanting to overthrow the government?

I'm unsure about this approach, since I also read that the Ottoman Empire will dispatch troops to quell your rebellion. Since you need to have rebels occupy your capital for 365 days (I believe), this might be unachievable given that Wallachia is a satellite of the Ottoman Empire right adjacent to it.

Advice: How can this actually be achieved? Should I wait for the Russian-Ottoman war to do this? Might be a little tough since I'd need to pre-plan the rebellion to coalesce with the war exactly.

Option 3: Foreign Liberation

Apparently if you're a satellite, it is possible that another great power may conquer you and liberate you. Well, I've already tried this and it didn't work unfortunately. During the Russian-Ottoman war, I pulled all my troops out of Wallachia and let the Russians conquer my territories. Right after they conquered my capital city, Ottoman Empire sued for peace and I got all my land back... still as a satellite.

Question: What needs to happen for a great power to liberate you? Is it purely random and dependent on the AI?

Again this isn't very feasible, since I have 0 diplomatic options. I can't declare war, and I can't goad another great power (e.g. Austria) to declare war and free me. Even when I got lucky and the Russians rolled over me, I still didn't get liberated.

Advice: How can this actually be achieved, keeping in mind the diplomatic limitations as a satellite?

Expansion Options

Are there any additional options with the expansions? I heard a lot of clamoring about how great it would be to be able to break free from your master by just going to war with them. Anything like this added? (And if so, how do you actually succeed given that Wallachia's military is a pittance compared to the Ottoman Empire)

How about scripted events - have any been added to aid in this in the expansions? Any chance I could get a "Vlad the Impaler" event to allow me to break free from the Ottomans?

***

Thanks for all your help and advice!

 

[Carolingian]

Hello,

I would like some help in playing Wallachia to achieve my ultimate goal in Victoria 2 - to form Romania. Unfortunately this seems to be extremely difficult, and I have been unable at getting past the first hurdle to break free of the Ottomans. I did consider playing another nation, but somehow my heart keeps taking me back to Romania.

I have read through the forums and searched for answers, and I've compiled a few options for breaking free as a satellite nation. Note that I only have Victoria 2, but I might be interested in getting the expansions as well, so please let me know if there are notable changes with the expansions that would affect my objective.

So in this thread, I'd like to ask questions, request advice, and discuss how to break free of the Ottoman Empire. That's right, we haven't even yet gotten to forming Romania. Please make sure to explain how an action might be achieved - I've helped guide the discussion through my questions. But it kind of annoys me how the Wiki for example talks about making an independence revolt without any explanation as to how that's actually achieved.

Cheats: Please note that I'd rather not use cheats, load up the savegame as another country, or tinker with the game files. There has to be a way in-game to do this, so I'd like to aim for that. If I use "alternative" methods to break free, then I might as well remove the massive industrial handicap, award myself influence over the cores needed for Romania, and so on. It kind of breaks immersion.

Option 1: Become a Great Power

I read somewhere that if you become a great power, you automatically lose your satellite status, and this is even a peaceful transition. You have to stay at a great power ranking for at least 180 days before you become one, since the great power you just knocked off can actually get back their status in that time.

This is a slightly unrealistic option historically speaking, but I have managed to get close by somewhat "bee-lining" the culture prestige techs. I could only get to 10th (I think even 9th for a moment), but diseases killing 20% of my population and a poor industry held me back. Fortunately, I could fake military power by creating a whole bunch of generals, since your military power goes up by 2 for each general you have.

Question: I heard that nations with only one state are not allowed to become great powers. Is this true? Is Wallachia doomed to remain a secondary satellite even if it's 1st in rankings, because it owns only one state (composed of 6 provinces)? Would it then be necessary to grab another state somehow? I don't know how I can achieve that, since during an Ottoman-Russian war, all the land I was capturing was given to the Ottomans.

Advice: This option might be the best, since it's nice and peaceful, allowing me to focus on my industry and avoid dealing with relatively tough opponents, and because it's necessary to become a great power before you can form Romania. What would you recommend if I wanted to pursue this option? Should I completely bee-line for all the prestige-invention culture technologies?

Option 2: Militant Rebellion

I've also heard that you can have rebels and militants take over and depose your government, which would break your satellite status with the Ottoman Empire.

Question: How do you increase militancy and rebels? Do you just tax people 100% and hope they start starving and wanting to overthrow the government?

I'm unsure about this approach, since I also read that the Ottoman Empire will dispatch troops to quell your rebellion. Since you need to have rebels occupy your capital for 365 days (I believe), this might be unachievable given that Wallachia is a satellite of the Ottoman Empire right adjacent to it.

Advice: How can this actually be achieved? Should I wait for the Russian-Ottoman war to do this? Might be a little tough since I'd need to pre-plan the rebellion to coalesce with the war exactly.

Option 3: Foreign Liberation

Apparently if you're a satellite, it is possible that another great power may conquer you and liberate you. Well, I've already tried this and it didn't work unfortunately. During the Russian-Ottoman war, I pulled all my troops out of Wallachia and let the Russians conquer my territories. Right after they conquered my capital city, Ottoman Empire sued for peace and I got all my land back... still as a satellite.

Question: What needs to happen for a great power to liberate you? Is it purely random and dependent on the AI?

Again this isn't very feasible, since I have 0 diplomatic options. I can't declare war, and I can't goad another great power (e.g. Austria) to declare war and free me. Even when I got lucky and the Russians rolled over me, I still didn't get liberated.

Advice: How can this actually be achieved, keeping in mind the diplomatic limitations as a satellite?

Expansion Options

Are there any additional options with the expansions? I heard a lot of clamoring about how great it would be to be able to break free from your master by just going to war with them. Anything like this added? (And if so, how do you actually succeed given that Wallachia's military is a pittance compared to the Ottoman Empire)

How about scripted events - have any been added to aid in this in the expansions? Any chance I could get a "Vlad the Impaler" event to allow me to break free from the Ottomans?

***

Thanks for all your help and advice!

Keep in mind here, I am no expert.
In fact, I kind of suck.
BUT I WILL TRY MY BEST.
For your first question, Wallachia/Moldavia CAN become a great power. You cannot become a great power if you have only one province, though.
Focus on getting generals for your military, encouraging craftsmen for industry, and bee line for prestige. When you can't do that, techs that improve your RGO output.
Second, taxes are the best way. Events also help. You can launch particular events by a cheat and get your militancy up; like I did with consciousness in Austria. It's ridiculous how much consciousness Austria DOESN'T get.
There's actually a wargoal; "Release puppet" that anybody can use against a puppet master. Russia didn't use it against you. A successful rebellion does take you from being a puppet.
For Victoria Vanilla, you really can't do anything to get great powers to help.
There are no new events, though I also hate puppet states, and therefore I don't generally play them, I don't believe you can go to war with your master.. As for expansion, Austria is your best target; once you're free, of course.

 

[marnues]

I've seen Wallachia and Moldavia form Romania while still puppets of the Ottoman Empire. I have no idea how that happens, but if you can do that then you've got the provinces to become a GP.

Foreign liberation is a rare event, especially when both Austria and Russia are more interested in taking provinces and you're likely to end up in Russia's SoI anyway. It'd be great if the crisis system worked for this, but I don't believe it does.

Rebellion is probably your best bet. The Ottoman military lags most games and gets crushed by Russia regularly. It may not be the first rebellion that frees you, but some rebellion will do it.

 

[DC123456789]

In HoD at least, you can declare war on your master to become independent. If you time this with a war against Austria or Russia where the Ottoman army has been completely annihilated (while keeping your army safe somehow) it may be possible to break free this way.

Also, there's a decision (not sure if it exists in vanilla) where if Wallachia and Moldovia are both independent, they can join to form Romania without bothering with the other cores. You have to make sure to free Moldovia yourself to prevent Moldovia from instantly taking the decision and screwing you over, though.

 

[drig]

too difficult in vanilla for it to be worthwhile to spend time trying.

I highly recommend trying the PDM mod. it has an event chain that generally results in danubian principalities being released and which enables a player to have some fun playing balkan nations.

 

[Icendoan]

A major addition to HoD is the Crises system, which, if you're lucky, may end up getting you additional lands, even before freeing yourself. Other than that, any revolutions, either in your state or your overlords, will free you.

 

[FellowNerd]

PDM adds an event chain that will cause Russia to try and free you.

 

[d'Anton]

I like playing Balkan countries so can share some tips:

option 1. As Wallachia or Moldova you will NOT become a great power as you only have one state. You will NOT expand as puppets cannot declare wars.

option 2. Nope. The moment you get rebels Ottomans will come to, what they think is, your rescue. You will NOT break free from Turkey this way although theoretically it is a possibility.

option 3. Pretty much every time someone declares war on Turkey you must take your master's side. And who is going to insist on their enemy's freedom? Nobody, you will NOT be released this way. BTW releasing a satellite costs stupid infamy and warscore - this really should be changed! In fact I think you could liberate all of Greater Bulgaria for the same infamy and slightly higher warscore.

option 4. war of liberation. Ottomans are ridiculosuly durable in HoD. Even if they get pwned couple of times in a row they will rebuild their strength so there is fat chance you will beat them in a war. The only (remote) chance of success is DoWing Turkey & immediate alliance with Russia & hoping that they can be called to war. However, if you're Moldova you have claims on Russia so they will NOT ally with you. Also, Ottomans seem to have many influential friends - as GP they are usually allied with another GP and as a secondary power they are under influence of oher GPs that can intervene in the war against you. In fact I got beaten a couple of times by the other Romanian principality even before Turks arrived!

Oh, and don't count on crises - it seems that conflicts between satellites and their masters never attract foreign attention. Other GPs will NOT support your claims.

So what can you do to break free?
1. Hope for a revolution in Turkey - when government is overthrown all satellites are released. However there is no guarantee this will happen. In fact Turkey seems to be quite immune to revolutions most of the time.
2. When Ottomans are in a war with Russia, Austria or other GP there is a chance the war will drag on for ages. If they are mobilised and their army is reduced to zero (a small number anyway) you can try your luck and declare war on them. The thing is that when countries are in a war they can't re-mobilise. So if they mobilised once to fight with Russia and lost their entire army they won't be able to raise another one unless they build regular brigades which takes time and supplies. Situations like that happen once-twice per game so I think this is your best chance.
3. Download the PDM mod (which is really good BTW,). It adds a decision to unify the Danubian principalities after you invent, erm, something (Nationalism & Imp or something). It's basically the event you have in HoD but the principalities do not have to be independent, so it always fires at some point.
4. PDM again. I seem to remember that if Russia occupies Danubian principalities & Bulgaria for some time there are events which release those countries as Russian puppets for a couple of infamy points for the Czar.


Finally it is always good to get 4% clergymen and rush education technologies. You can get very advanced and get a modern army waiting for the right moment to happen (or get supremely frustrated when it doesn't).

So in short: get a PDM or try option 2 above.

 

[Grazz]

Thissss goddamn mission of doom!! I just spent the whole night and a bottle of vodka fighting and scumsaving my way to try and just maybe make Romania happen! After a liter of vodka and 2 liters of mountain dew.... don't judge my drink... I can say that this task is a task no man should take! If you manage the miracle of breaking free of the ottomans when they are weak and forming an alliance with somone to smack the ottos around for you.... that doesn't matter, that's the eeeeeeeasy part! and mind you found out that that repeatedly being reputted is a great way to build up conscious to push thru reforms at the cost of some prestige.... anyway! now now you get to try and get moldavia away from the ottos, this fucking game won't even let you form the remove puppet CB most of the time, I'm guessing you had to be a secondary power in hindsight but its purely a guess!but if you dooo manage this you're going to need a great power to do it and when they do moldavia insta forms romania... I bet you'd be thinking Oh Hey! no prob! just conquer mini romania and me having all the other romanian cores will reform it... HAH! even when you don't bow down and die to the event the game still kills you 1/4 of the time... yes I did it 4 times.... and if you conquer moldavia/mini romania, TOO LATE! you can no longer form romania....

the whole thing is a nightmare, you're dancing between the legs of giants sandwiched between austria, ottos and russia and you're land locked so there is nowhere to take a nibble from that doesn't involve fighting great power. Moldavia gets taken over by rebels BLAM they form romania, you lose, ottos get taken over by rebels BLAMMO you lose, someone randomly releases moldavia you lose its soo frustrating! Its like trying to apply strategy to poker only worse! I did manage to become a fairly strong 2ndardy power vying for GP status at the end and if anything I reccomnend not even thinking about forming romania, your objective is to eat the ottomans until you can reach GP status which from 1 province to GP in vanilla vicky 2 ... well.. 10% literacy a pop of 300k that gets cholera like clockwork.... you could game it up but its a bullshit random thing not meant for a player to do mostly because forming romania is something that normally happens to you, during my drunken evening moldavia formed romania about 4 times but this wasn't something I think you are meant to do.... I'm going to pass out now, FUCK WALLACHIA!

 

[austrianemporer]

How much experience do you have at Victoria II?

 

[Owl Raider]

I've seen Wallachia and Moldavia form Romania while still puppets of the Ottoman Empire. I have no idea how that happens, but if you can do that then you've got the provinces to become a GP.

What you're describing is Pan Nationalist rebels. Pan Nationalist rebels are indeed the easiest way to form any cultural union without meeting its actual requirements, and is actually triggered quite frequently, especially the formation of Italy by the Redshirts(which is a special case of Pan Nationalist rebels) and the formation of Germany if AI Prussia is having difficulties getting the requirements done on its own(for example if you as the player is playing France, Austria or even the UK and actively block Prussia from forming NGF and than Germany). For other cultural unions it's much rarer as those places are typically quite stable. Never tried playing Wallachia/Moldavia in Vicky 2 so I'm not sure if they receive the Crown from the Gutter event that allows them to form Romania after a successful Pan Nationalist rebellion or not, in which case you either remain a puppet when the other becomes Romania and can declare war on you for their cores or whether you get annexed and it's game over.

So depending on how Pan Nationalist rebellions work with Romania specifically this might be the only real way to form Romania in vanilla HoD. The challenge is actually getting the rebellion to fire and than succeed, which is purely RNG as you have no control over it being a puppet of the Ottomans. In my experience you should actually not want the Ottomans to drop out of GP status, as when they do they're generally left alone whereas when they don't they tend to get involved in messy wars against stronger powers who generally destroy it. Thus it's easier to encourage Pan Nationalist rebels if your puppet master gets into wars that will get you fully occupied as that would raise militancy through the roof and bring rebels onto your nation.

 

[Ryan☆]

Olá, resolvi formar a Romênia estava pesquisando e encontrei esse tópico que me deu muita informação então resolvi fazer meu relato.
(Estou falando do HOD) bom pra eu formar a romania o que eu fiz foi basicamente pesquisar 7 tecnologias militares focando no moral sempre pegando as mais baratas, afinal eu fiz foi declarar guerra ao império otomano e ficar em nosso território sem um exército inimigo vindo, eu iria derrotá-lo e depois da batalha eu iria para minha província que tinha mais soldados e repetiria esse processo até que a rússia decidisse me pedir uma aliança então eu só tinha que adicionar o CB para liberar as maldivas? (esqueci o nome) eu aceitei e foi só pra esperar depois que a guerra acabou o único problema foi que assim que libertou as maldivas virou romania e me prendeu mais pra isso era só pausar muito e voltar no save até um tempo para ir.
Desculpe se não entendi direito é porque estou usando o google tradutor
It was a lot of text but I just wanted to thank you