Mind my newbness, but this mod is for the 1914 scenario right? As in just for the Great War event?
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Wannabe Tatar said:
Then Houston we have a problem...
Downloaded the mod and installed it on my Mac, started off playing Germany and then after a couple of months saved the game and edited the save file so that I could take over playing Netherlands so I could sit back and watch the action.
Germany made peace with France giving up two provinces in Namibia to South Africa, that should have been it for the war with the entente as France is not the master of South Africa it implies an alliance peace. But apparently it wasn't since Britain and the commonwealth stayed in the fight and France stayed out of it.
By the time the AI had made peace with France I had in my first couple of months playing taken the Belgians out gaining roughly a third of Belgium and all but two provinces in the Congo. Also Portugal joined the war on the side of the CP and proceeded to rain hate and discontent upon the heads of Britain and South Africa. The German AI in Africa was far to passive and did not make any attacks with their forces in Southeast or Southwest Africa, rather just garrisoned their starting provinces while the rest of the joint got gobbled up around them.
But the real major OMFG problem was after France being out of the war and Britain having a war exhaustion of 70% and still fighting... the AI took out the Russians in IIRC '16 triggering the BL event.
Two days later they surrendered to France.
Yup, the AI had essentially WON the war by knocking Belgium out and gaining the Congo at the cost of a portion of Namibia in her peace with France and taking out the Russians hardcore... and then facing only Britain and the minor parties and without the US in the war; gave up.
That doesn't make a whit of sense so there has to be something funky going on with triggers for that event. It is probably reading the giving up of a couple of provinces of near barren desert as a defeat since the game engine tags it as such and that is throwing it off. For the kind of peace that the historic Versailles treaty IS France is going to have to have gained substantially more then the two least useful provinces of Namibia, and well still be actually IN the war.
So I think that needs to be looked at a bit. Historically it would make no sense for Germany to unconditionally surrender under those circumstances. The absolute worst that should probably happen at that point is Britain seeks a status quo ante settlement.
bobtdwarf said:
Seeing as this post was made before I released the last version... an obvious answer would be: Did you downloaded the latest version?
Wannabe Tatar said:
I thought I had, will DL it again and see if that helps. I will hold off until after that to report what could already be a fixed bug; started a new game and waited until an appropriate point (1917) and then edited the save file so that the conditions would be met for a central powers victory so I could see what that looked like (also to let the game proceed so that I could convert it to HOI and see how that translated). Got the event for the CP winning the great war and then the establishment of Mittleeurope etc. and was mightily impressed by the detail (well deserved kudos to you on that BTW), and was looking forward to the next 20 years passing so that I could export the game when around 1920 or so events started firing from the CP lose the war sequence. Then again it might not be a bug, I could have accidentally tripped a trigger by engaging in a war after WW1 with Bulgaria... the dang Austrians have been belligerent little bastards the last year of the game. Not like the entente have been much better they just got done fighting a really pointless war with Serbia for some reason, followed by the Austrians going to war with Serbia just after the entente gave up because they couldn't get access to Serbia apparently.
EDIT: I just checked and I do have the latest version.
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Wannabe Tatar said:
The likelier event in the case of the CP having knocked out France and Russia is for England to white peace.
There would be no point in taking the existing German colonies at that point since Germany would just take a bigger chunk of the French empire to compensate for the loss.
If France goes out of the war and Russia is still in it, the English will stay in the war; but if her other two major power partners on the continent are knocked out she will sue for peace even IF the US is in the war at the time.
If they don't the probable actions of the CP would be to take all the troops that were previously bashing on France and Russia and wipe the Italians out. Leaving them in total control of the continent and able to extract a sizable colonial compensation from the defeated parties making your grabbing of the existing German colonies a worthless exercise in real estate shuffling. May not be as fun to play for some people but it is the more reasonable course of action for Britain realistically and historically. They have nothing to gain in staying in the war and far more to lose.
bobtdwarf said:
Just checked the triggers of the Versailles Event, and it seems it misses a trigger that France and Germany are at war, so it could simply be that Berlin was occupied or they had a war exhaustion from a different war. Also there is an AI event which 'forces' the historical outcome, which I noticed also lacked a very important trigger. This event will only fire if all nations are AI controlled.
bobtdwarf said:
A "white peace" sounds reasonable, as currently Britain and Germany will fight till the bitter end. IIRC neither side wanted a white peace, as both nations had sacreficed a lot and a peace without gains would be worthless. My best idea for this is an increase in militancy for the people, and on top of that another increase for fascists.
Just dropping in to say how much this mod has improved the game, and thus the content of my AAR... thanks Wannabe!
ooops.Wannabe Tatar said:
Wannabe Tatar said:
Well as in most things in life desire and reality often are at cross purposes...
If they don't go for a return to the status quo or even possibly making a minor concession or two (think coughing up Zanzibar), then they risk a possible invasion by an enhanced with captured or reparation ships HSF. And IF that did occur then you can bet your bottom dollar that the current ruling house of Britain is going to change (either Wilhelm directly as a descendent of Victoria or the King of Bavaria as the heir of the house of Stuart), or at least that will be the major fear in England. Togo is just not worth that.
One thing that would be nice to have in the scenario is a bit of a choice in the peace with France. Basically three possible levels of boning of the French state: Level one minimal trimming; upper Kameroun and perhaps New Caledonia and New Hebrides or something else. Level two medium trimming; either more substantial gains in Africa (such as is present), or gains in Asia (Vietnam and the aforementioned islands near New Guinea). And level three which would be both gains in Africa AND Asia (think existing African trimming plus the previous Asian swap). The purpose of this would be to determine how harsh you wish to be (and if replicated in a total victory event that would be nice as well), with some mind toward prestige gains and post war relations with the defeated parties. The less harsh the peace the greater the prestige and better the post war relations with the whole world (or at least the democracies the nastier countries might see it as weakness).
@robou: Thanks! I'll check you AAR out to see where it needs improvement.
Currently I've only altered the African gains a bit, it's a bit ahistorical IMO that France would secede all her African holdings. My idea would be to keep the current CP win event as it is, but if Germany (or France) decides to keep going, then that event would be slept and a harsher event treaty would fire, some more African colonies and Pacific colonies. Not sure about Vietnam, though. My best bet would be a German puppet state instead of direct contol. Same goes for Britain, they would secede substantial more African colonies (I believe currently they gain both Rhodesias) and add to that Botswana and perhaps Kenya and Uganda. As a result of the defeat of the Empire Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada could seperate from Britain, with SA driffting towards Germany.
So basically you've to options, accept the first treaty and get the current lands (I should check Germany's pacific gains for this, though) or continue and force a harsher treaty.
bobtdwarf said:
Currently I've only altered the African gains a bit, it's a bit ahistorical IMO that France would secede all her African holdings. My idea would be to keep the current CP win event as it is, but if Germany (or France) decides to keep going, then that event would be slept and a harsher event treaty would fire, some more African colonies and Pacific colonies. Not sure about Vietnam, though. My best bet would be a German puppet state instead of direct contol. Same goes for Britain, they would secede substantial more African colonies (I believe currently they gain both Rhodesias) and add to that Botswana and perhaps Kenya and Uganda. As a result of the defeat of the Empire Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada could seperate from Britain, with SA driffting towards Germany.
So basically you've to options, accept the first treaty and get the current lands (I should check Germany's pacific gains for this, though) or continue and force a harsher treaty.
Wannabe Tatar said:
From my personal experiance playing with Italy, i find that Austria just falls apart to a competent Italian player, it was just too easy. Also, i think that if the Italians are the first to enter Vienna, as i was, that perhaps a St. Germain event (which happened after i made a seperate peace with Austria) that is more favourable to Italian demands be put in instead of the regular one. That is about all, apart from possibly a rethink about the actual state of Italy's infrastructure, though i am not sure about this subject.
robou said:
I think it has to do with the Austrian AI. It's extremely hard to make sure the AI keeps some divisions in the Alps. Usually upon the Italian entry, there are too few Austrian divisions at the border with Italy, so a player can actually march through the defense lines without much problems. A solution might be to add an AI event to put some divisions in the border provinces.
As I discovered with my own Russian AAR, there was the London Treaty of 1915, in which Italy gained substantial more gains and Serbia less. Which can be used for an early Austrian knock-out in general.See here for some details about it. Of course a lot of post-war instability has yet to be modelled to make the post-war period more difficult for players.
Wannabe Tatar said:
Perhaps events may be the best way, but how to make sure they don't simply get free troops...? Well i can see how the Treaty of London works, but you would have to be a genius with a Austrian Cruching Russian ally to get to Vienna in 1915! The Post-war stuff is important, especially in Italy, though i see you have done the China events. It is just too easy at the momment, so those post war things will spice it up a little.
Also, one thing to report: The November (though it didnt happen in november) armistice event fired after French and Amercian Troops trounced through Bavaria, but the Versaille event didn't, is this something to do with Austria already out of the war? What was causing it?
robou said:
Austria is one of those nations who need a good look, as it will unbalance the entire war if it's too strong or too weak. If a human plays Italy, Austria will even have a harder time to defend her territories. From a gameplay view, it wouldn't hurt to try. As for the Treaty of London, I'm thinking something along the lines of it to fire between 1914 and 1917 (Russian knock-out?) but no American entry (Russia would support support the claims of Serbia, as did Wilson)
Post-war a lot of stuff has to be done, but I'm working on this alone with not too much free time, and I decided other parts of the world also need some work. I might check what the 1919 mod has done and see if I can incorporate some of their work.
There is no seperate Armistace event, but the regular Versailles event. After it Germany (if losing) should lose their lands between then and 1936. Knocking Austria out shouldn't have caused anything weird, although a seperate peace might have changed some things. I'll take a closer look at the triggers for the treaty, as there seem to be some issues with it.
Wannabe Tatar said:
I'd be happy to help you out in a few weeks if you need any
Ah i see, so it mihgt just not have triggered yet, as Germany lost the war, but no land has been exchanged yet.
robou said:I'd be happy to help you out in a few weeks if you need any
I'll take a closer look at the triggers regardless, as the events don't always seem to fire.
And yes, any help would be greatly appreciated
Ok, i have firstly looked into the strength of the Ottoman navy in 1914. So far, they only have 4 ships:
My research suggests this may be a little out. The crossed-reference information i have found suggests this to be the strength of the Ottoman navy:
PDN
- Hayreddin Barbarossa
- Torgud Reiss
Coastal Defence ship
- Mesudiye, hard to place what this is, stronger than a cruiser (12 15.2in guns to a cruisers 2) but much weaker than a Battleship. I would say a cruiser would fit this fine though.
Protected Cruisers
- Hamadiye
- Medjidiye
The current mod leaves out the Mesudiye, which could add a little more fire power to the small ottoman navy.
Also, the Battlecruiser Goeben (Yavuz Sultan Selim in turkish) and the modern light cruiser Breslau (Midilli in turkish) were transfered to the Ottoman navy, under Ottoman control though manned primarily by Germans, in August 1914. I don't know how you would simulate the transfer of these ships, but i do believe that they should become ottoman from Germany to add the historical flavour to it, as the Goeben served right up until 1971.
that is all for now
Code:
###Turkish Navy - 1914###
#Turkish Fleet#
navalunit = {
name = "Turkish Fleet"
id = { type = 12971 id = 1000 }
location = 971 #Konstantiniyye
division = {
name = "Hayreddin Barbarossa"
id = { type = 12971 id = 1001 }
type = battleship
}
division = {
name = "Torgud Reiss"
id = { type = 12971 id = 1002 }
type = battleship
}
division = {
name = "Hamadiye"
id = { type = 12971 id = 1003 }
type = cruiser
extra = destroyer
}
division = {
name = "Medjidiye"
id = { type = 12971 id = 1004 }
type = cruiser
extra = minelayer
}
}My research suggests this may be a little out. The crossed-reference information i have found suggests this to be the strength of the Ottoman navy:
PDN
- Hayreddin Barbarossa
- Torgud Reiss
Coastal Defence ship
- Mesudiye, hard to place what this is, stronger than a cruiser (12 15.2in guns to a cruisers 2) but much weaker than a Battleship. I would say a cruiser would fit this fine though.
Protected Cruisers
- Hamadiye
- Medjidiye
The current mod leaves out the Mesudiye, which could add a little more fire power to the small ottoman navy.
Also, the Battlecruiser Goeben (Yavuz Sultan Selim in turkish) and the modern light cruiser Breslau (Midilli in turkish) were transfered to the Ottoman navy, under Ottoman control though manned primarily by Germans, in August 1914. I don't know how you would simulate the transfer of these ships, but i do believe that they should become ottoman from Germany to add the historical flavour to it, as the Goeben served right up until 1971.
that is all for now
robou said:Ok, i have firstly looked into the strength of the Ottoman navy in 1914. So far, they only have 4 ships:
Code:###Turkish Navy - 1914### #Turkish Fleet# navalunit = { name = "Turkish Fleet" id = { type = 12971 id = 1000 } location = 971 #Konstantiniyye division = { name = "Hayreddin Barbarossa" id = { type = 12971 id = 1001 } type = battleship } division = { name = "Torgud Reiss" id = { type = 12971 id = 1002 } type = battleship } division = { name = "Hamadiye" id = { type = 12971 id = 1003 } type = cruiser extra = destroyer } division = { name = "Medjidiye" id = { type = 12971 id = 1004 } type = cruiser extra = minelayer } }
My research suggests this may be a little out. The crossed-reference information i have found suggests this to be the strength of the Ottoman navy:
PDN
- Hayreddin Barbarossa
- Torgud Reiss
Coastal Defence ship
- Mesudiye, hard to place what this is, stronger than a cruiser (12 15.2in guns to a cruisers 2) but much weaker than a Battleship. I would say a cruiser would fit this fine though.
Protected Cruisers
- Hamadiye
- Medjidiye
The current mod leaves out the Mesudiye, which could add a little more fire power to the small ottoman navy.
Also, the Battlecruiser Goeben (Yavuz Sultan Selim in turkish) and the modern light cruiser Breslau (Midilli in turkish) were transfered to the Ottoman navy, under Ottoman control though manned primarily by Germans, in August 1914. I don't know how you would simulate the transfer of these ships, but i do believe that they should become ottoman from Germany to add the historical flavour to it, as the Goeben served right up until 1971.
that is all for now
That's wonderful. Regarding the Breslau and Goeben (if they are in the German navy) we could remove them from there and add them in the construction pool of the Ottomans, with German as culture and some German city as home town. I had already done some research regarding navies, that's why Portugal, Sweden and the Netherlands don't have monitors anymore, but rather light cruisers (or just cruisers) as coastal defence ships, so I would suggest this for the OE too.
Wannabe Tatar said:
Well the difficulty is how the story of the Goeben and the Breslau fanned out. They started the war just of the south cost of Italy (as you have them in the game
) but after a chase by the british made a dash for Istanbul and this was one of the main events that brought the Ottomans into the war, which they had been planning to do for some time. So they should start as German and then transfer, but i can understand how difficult this is to achieve, so i would say that having them as In-Construction would be fine.
After further research, it appears the Ottomans lack troops as well. The Osprey book on the Ottoman in WW1 states that there were 36 regular divisions in August 1914, with a further 34 being mobilized between August and December 1914. At the momment we have 24 Division ready for Ottomans in August 1914, with only 10 divisions available for mobilization at the start. Perhaps this needs some serious increase?