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Rather than artificially inflating the AI's stats (I never liked that technique) I would rather see multiple AI players team up allied against me. Me against 3-4 AIs teamed up and cooperating with each other would be much more challenging and entertaining.
 
Rather than artificially inflating the AI's stats (I never liked that technique) I would rather see multiple AI players team up allied against me. Me against 3-4 AIs teamed up and cooperating with each other would be much more challenging and entertaining.
This would be the perfect solution. I made this suggestion many times, since the game was released but I think the developers don't care about how ridiculously easy is to defeat the impossible AI.
 
This would be the perfect solution. I made this suggestion many times, since the game was released but I think the developers don't care about how ridiculously easy is to defeat the impossible AI.

Maybe the developers really suck at strategy games, and have their butts handed to them by the hard AI??

Ok, all kidding aside, perhaps they haven't yet grasped how quickly people got "good" at the game. Maybe we need a whole new thread, requesting they do something about it.

Having the AI team up should be easy enough. That's what I used to do when playing the HoMM games.

Beyond that, I wouldn't mind a cheating AI, just so I could get a challenge. The ideal solution - making the AIs more intelligent - is probably not all that easy, although I think there would be some easy steps that they could program into the game to make it harder.

Ah well, I'm gonna try to do a new game, huge map vs max. amount of AIs, and only allow myself 10 cities max, see how that works.
 
Maybe the developers really suck at strategy games, and have their butts handed to them by the hard AI??

Ok, all kidding aside, perhaps they haven't yet grasped how quickly people got "good" at the game. Maybe we need a whole new thread, requesting they do something about it.

Having the AI team up should be easy enough. That's what I used to do when playing the HoMM games.

Beyond that, I wouldn't mind a cheating AI, just so I could get a challenge. The ideal solution - making the AIs more intelligent - is probably not all that easy, although I think there would be some easy steps that they could program into the game to make it harder.

Ah well, I'm gonna try to do a new game, huge map vs max. amount of AIs, and only allow myself 10 cities max, see how that works.

Hi :)
Have a look at the threads about making the game more difficult using various 'house rules', like racial purity etc.
 
Hi :)
Have a look at the threads about making the game more difficult using various 'house rules', like racial purity etc.

Hey, yeah, I have actually, and I've just decided to try a new game on huge where I'm only allowed to make 10 cities. See how that goes.

But yeah, house rules are fine, but I'd really love it if the game were more challenging.

"Impossible" difficulty should REALLY be harder. It should be a rare achievement to finish the game on that difficulty, not the standard. :)
 
Yes I agree with you; impossible should be impossible.
The only way I can see that being possible is by boosting AI stats. Realistically there is only so much a game AI can be expected to do. After all, it isnt actually intelligent. So far I'm not an expert so I find the game enjoyable. I'm playing racial purity; I destroy all cities I take; so to grow I have to found new cities. I like the game... a lot :)
 
AI in TBS games is almost universally terrible. Generally the games are fun for other reasons (building your empire, exploring, customization, variety, random maps, etc).

I really think until we have some huge breakthrough on the AI front (and the people working on that are generally doing government/military/corporate work, not games), the best possible approach to the AI problem is not trying to emulate a human player at all, but rather, creating an adversarial AI that creates a challenging game.

AI War takes exactly this approach, and its quite fun - ALL of the civ style empire builders suffer from the problem of having an AI that tries to play the same game that the players do, and this never, ever works out perfectly. It also doesn't help that there's a huge segment of the player base that will raise a huge ruckus if the AI is 'cheating', nevermind that a human player has innumerable advantages over any current AI.

It's probably most blatantly noticable in terms of Diplomacy, which is almost always hilariously abusable by the player, and is either schizophrenic or useless in terms of interacting with the AI players, but it affects all aspects of the game. Generally tactical combat AI can be made pretty solid (HoMM, King's Bounty, Eador are all pretty good), but overall strategic AI? Not so much.

Anyway, this is all sort of a moot point, that sort of rework would be a whole new game, not a patch for Warlock. I do hope to see a game that uses the AI War approach to the design philosophy for an empire building TBS though, I think it could be a ton of fun. Toss out any concept of 'fairness' or playing the game the same way as the player and simply try to craft a game that can make for really tough, challenging matches - not by throwing econ boosts at an AI playing the same game as the player (but worse), but by creating a challenging game world to conquer each time.
 
AI in TBS games is almost universally terrible. Generally the games are fun for other reasons (building your empire, exploring, customization, variety, random maps, etc).

I really think until we have some huge breakthrough on the AI front (and the people working on that are generally doing government/military/corporate work, not games), the best possible approach to the AI problem is not trying to emulate a human player at all, but rather, creating an adversarial AI that creates a challenging game.

AI War takes exactly this approach, and its quite fun - ALL of the civ style empire builders suffer from the problem of having an AI that tries to play the same game that the players do, and this never, ever works out perfectly. It also doesn't help that there's a huge segment of the player base that will raise a huge ruckus if the AI is 'cheating', nevermind that a human player has innumerable advantages over any current AI.

It's probably most blatantly noticable in terms of Diplomacy, which is almost always hilariously abusable by the player, and is either schizophrenic or useless in terms of interacting with the AI players, but it affects all aspects of the game. Generally tactical combat AI can be made pretty solid (HoMM, King's Bounty, Eador are all pretty good), but overall strategic AI? Not so much.

Anyway, this is all sort of a moot point, that sort of rework would be a whole new game, not a patch for Warlock. I do hope to see a game that uses the AI War approach to the design philosophy for an empire building TBS though, I think it could be a ton of fun. Toss out any concept of 'fairness' or playing the game the same way as the player and simply try to craft a game that can make for really tough, challenging matches - not by throwing econ boosts at an AI playing the same game as the player (but worse), but by creating a challenging game world to conquer each time.

I absolutely agree here, with... well, everything you said, pretty much.

I'm not expecting miracles, but I think there are some things that would be fairly easily fixed.

For one, the Diplomacy thing could just have a few more "rules" implemented, and that would help a lot.

Second, make the option of teams available, just like in HoMM. That way you have some control over how powerful the AI team will be that you're up against. (I remember playing a lot of hotseat in HoMM with a friend, and we'd team up, while making three AI teams with 2 AIs on each at first, then later two AI teams with 3 AIs on each team to make it even harder. I think we eventually had them all on the same team against us, but I'm not sure if that was on hardest difficulty - I believe the hardest AI cheated or had advantages in HoMM, as far as I remember.)

Third, make a couple more difficulty levels, where the AI is given advantages. And let the advantages be known, so the players know that they're up against cheating AIs. I remember some of the frustration of playing against hard AIs in other games was due to the suspicion (usually well-founded) that the AI did cheat, but you never knew how and what they did.
The next few difficulties could just be something like: "AI Unit Power +20% or 40%", or "AI unit cost reduction 30%". And maybe some in-game rules, too, so that on hardest difficulty, you could never ally with an AI, or maybe you could never ask for peace from them.

I think doing something like that would not raise such a ruckus among people, because the "cheating" would be known, so it would just be another way to increase the challenge of the game - instead of people having to make arbitrary house rules as is the case now.
 
Some good sugestions above.

I prefer to beat the AI by strategy & tactics….not by ‘Shock & Awe’. I’m not interested in fielding tanks and missiles against chariots; or assassins against hunters. Don’t see any point in it.

Rushing to get elite units out before the AI has even got advanced fighters isn’t much fun once you figure out how to do it. Some power players say they can defeat their first enemy by turn 30. Nothing wrong with their choice; just that’s not what I want in a strategy game. If I get to that point with a game I’m finished with that game.

Some kind of faction level restriction on tech would help; in other words to get a barracks for example you have to have a certain level of faction advancement; or have passed a specific turn; or whatever; not just have built a smithy. And also some kind of concept of the spread of tech, like in EU; which is realistic.

Of course the disparity between a novice or a casual gamer and a power gamer is so enormous that it is difficult for a developer to design a game that can present a scaled challenge at both ends of that spectrum. Advanced gamers will only be challenged by human players; or a massively cheating AI.
 
Really good AI

I would just like to say that if developers ever created really good computer AI that could challenge a human, then we might not be able to play games at all due to the computers taking over the human race, so beware what you wish for!!!
 
I would just like to say that if developers ever created really good computer AI that could challenge a human, then we might not be able to play games at all due to the computers taking over the human race, so beware what you wish for!!!

Haha, true. Yeah, let's just let them cheat. That way, they'll always be complacent! Hah!
 
The next few difficulties could just be something like: "AI Unit Power +20% or 40%", or "AI unit cost reduction 30%". And maybe some in-game rules, too, so that on hardest difficulty, you could never ally with an AI, or maybe you could never ask for peace from them.
I think that unit power increase is right on the money.

I've been playing a lot of FFH2 + AI patches, and I think the big reason the AI in that game is so much more competitive at higher levels is that in addition to the usual production bonuses they really focus on front loading the difficulty like that to prevent snowballing. It's also a lot less noticeable than the huge production and casting speed increases the Warlock AI gets, and because of that feels less blatantly cheaty even though the AI actually gets a lot more bonuses in that game.

Also definitely agree about AI War, it's a brilliant idea that really needs to get stolen.
 
AI: Can be made good, and it can be challenging. It can be made to be ruthless and not emulate human players. The problem is that game developers rarely have a capable team making AI. It is always about eye candy to most developers, because eye candy sells games faster than anything. Without getting into how the game industry has digressed, I actually have hope from Paradox.

Very few games ever make AI modable. Because it usually opens up the Dev's to large amounts of criticism. AI is VERY costly to a Dev's. It takes lots of time to make and Play test to make sure it is good. It can take a Dev over 2 years of development to make a basic AI with a small team that knows what they are doing.

There is one game that will whoop your butt! Galactic Civilization 2 has great AI, You will get pissed because it can be so ruthless on the hardest difficulties. Though it employs bonuses that do make it Impossible.

Civ 4's AI is also pretty good.

This games AI is broken at the later game, period. and it is mostly because of diplomatic standings and it doesn't know how to pick the best faction to war with. Leading me to believe it is broken, or poorly implemented.

More often than not, AI programmers are not great strategists either, because strategy involves much more than logic.

Just my .02
 
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A good example of the bad AI: I'm playing a game on impossible difficulty right now and one of the AI opponents just had the olden ghost hero and two units of taishar knights embark on boats within range of my elven archers. Needless to say they were easy pickings. Not only was it stupid of the AI to do that but it's not right to make units so much easier to kill because they are relegated to the boat's HPs while onboard.
 
I would honestly like to see a map type that has NO water.

The AI cannot handle water intelligently, it has no special resources, boats are unexiting, etc. Water has been a bane on just about every TBS strategy game I can think of.

Even Great Land still has little pools, and the AI will waste time and resources filling them with useless ships, on top of the afore mentioned suicidal super units in transports issue.
 
A good example of the bad AI: I'm playing a game on impossible difficulty right now and one of the AI opponents just had the olden ghost hero and two units of taishar knights embark on boats within range of my elven archers. Needless to say they were easy pickings. Not only was it stupid of the AI to do that but it's not right to make units so much easier to kill because they are relegated to the boat's HPs while onboard.

Not defending the AI - which does make many poor moves; all AIs make many dumb moves. But there are many examples from history of political and military actions which were equally dumb. The trenches of WW1 saw many such disastrous military decisions. Also, the most advanced land military units are as weak or strong as the ship they are on in the real world too.
 
A good example of the bad AI: I'm playing a game on impossible difficulty right now and one of the AI opponents just had the olden ghost hero and two units of taishar knights embark on boats within range of my elven archers. Needless to say they were easy pickings. Not only was it stupid of the AI to do that but it's not right to make units so much easier to kill because they are relegated to the boat's HPs while onboard.

Yep, a prime example.

But this is actually something I think would be hard to solve by programming the AI. That is, for the AI to be tactically aware enough NOT to get in the frigging water with enemy archers nearby.

Instead, I think you need to implement stuff like what xeren talks about just below. Excellent idea, btw, xeren!

We need maps with NO water on them! (Make it an option, at least!)

I think what bothers me the most about the AI right now is the diplomacy bit. It seems like the AI wants to perpetually at war - even though he's just been beaten into a bloody pulp.
This seems like it would be easy to fix. Make some kind of in-game scoring point system, and when an AI notices it's really low on score, it should go into peaceful/defensive/find alliance mode or something.
 
As much as Im not a fan of simply inflating the AIs power, unfortunately in games like these this seems to be the only way to make it more competitive.

I played my first game of Warlock on challenging after a few short practice games, then started my second game on impossible, largest map size, maximum opponents and its still too easy.

So yes, at the least make a lazy update to simply buff the AI strength, e.g:

Challenging difficulty - AI teams gain 15 points worth of starting perks, +10% unit power, and +15% to all resistances for both units and cities, and their units start at level 3.
Impossible difficulty - AI teams gain 20 points worth of starting perks, +20% unit power, +30% to all resistances for both units and cities, and their units train 1 turn faster and start at level 5.

Gogo, buff the AI!