WATKABAOI 1337-1914 AAR thread

[Therion]

Castillian AAr

After the previous war against aragoon, the castilian badboy points reached extremely HIGH values making me unable to expand at all. Hopefully, i still managed to grab naples for the greater good of Spain . Hope Venice doesnt mind... They are already BIG and they want the best for their friends... right?

Without much to do, i just increased the armee, navy, and annexed Aragoon and - tried - to annex Sicilie. sadly the maggots refused and canceled vassalization! . But they noticed how wrong they were and agreed to a vassalization again .

After that there wasnt much to do, and even if i wanted, i couldnt, because i (and other people) kept crashing. And hey, our host wasnt even dutch like Martmol. :O

Edits - inflation for being ontime and for writing aar! also include the bonus from past session since i was ontime pls. And gimme Catalan/Basque culture if possible. and since i am your friend, i will tell you that HAWAIIAN is the tag for catalan culture! Ah and i almost forgoot that i wanted a core in 441!

ps: dont know if i will be able to make it next session! soz! in the meanwhile peeps, download all pr0n, but NOT during the game. OkThxBye

by Beowulf

 

[martmol]

just a reminder, those AARS and mostly the castillian AAR is to small, it has to be 20 lines a MINIMUM. i let the incident slide for now, but please post longer AAR's next session

 

[Mats_SX]

just a reminder, those AARS and mostly the castillian AAR is to small, it has to be 20 lines a MINIMUM. i let the incident slide for now, but please post longer AAR's next session

20 lines in which resolution? I have 1600x1200 and the Castillian was 5 lines.

 

[unmerged(15247)]

Castillian AAr

After the previous war against aragoon, the castilian badboy points reached extremely HIGH values making me unable to expand at all. Hopefully, i still managed to grab naples for the greater good of Spain . Hope Venice doesnt mind... They are already BIG and they want the best for their friends... right?

Without much to do, i just increased the armee, navy, and annexed Aragoon and - tried - to annex Sicilie. sadly the maggots refused and canceled vassalization! . But they noticed how wrong they were and agreed to a vassalization again .

After that there wasnt much to do, and even if i wanted, i couldnt, because i (and other people) kept crashing. And hey, our host wasnt even dutch like Martmol. :O


Edits - inflation for being ontime and for writing aar! also include the bonus from past session since i was ontime pls. And gimme Catalan/Basque culture if possible. and since i am your friend, i will tell you that HAWAIIAN is the tag for catalan culture! Ah and i almost forgoot that i wanted a core in 441!

ps: dont know if i will be able to make it next session! soz! in the meanwhile peeps, download all pr0n, but NOT during the game. OkThxBye

by Beowulf

last time i checked castile is MUCH bigger as amatter of fact venice is the SMALLEST from all user controled nations.

 

[PJL]

Sorry, those AARs by Castille and OE don't count unless Beowulf & Spartan register.

Ontime reward - 100d
AAR reward - 300d

 

[Therion]

I'll let the GM decide.

 

[Mats_SX]

Sorry, those AARs by Castille and OE don't count unless Beowulf & Spartan register.

The GM has allowed them already. Next time they will not be legal.

AAR reward - 300d

What AAR?

 

[unmerged(98575)]

Give me a core on province 380.

 

[PJL]

The GM has allowed them already. Next time they will not be legal.


What AAR?

The one I'll be doing tomorrow.

 

[Mats_SX]

The one I'll be doing tomorrow.

The deadline is passed. No AAR bonus will be distributed to Muscowy. Neither will a core, as none was requested.

EDIT: Damn, we've got one save with the edits, and another with the leaders. How to solve this most easily?
EDIT2: Fixed that.

 

[unmerged(98575)]

England 1408 - 1427

As the first two years of the session rolled by England fortified her Southern provinces and doubled the size of her Navy. When King Henry V took control of our glorious nation thr military was pushed well beyond the support limits. 90k Cavalry rolled across the channel with Henry V taking 40k directly to Paris. The French navy of 20 ships was trapped by a 115 ship blockade as more English troops rolled into the lowlands. Henry and his crack troops slaughtered over 60 thousand men in Paris before capturing the city. As province after province fell into English lands it seemed the French had given up but it was not so. Henry was quickly ambushed by 50k French cavalry and quickly retreated, regrouped and killed every last man. The French military was destroyed, only 15k men still roamed the country. Peace was finally agreed upon ending with the succession of 4 key provinces in lowlands region. France was humiliated and quickly ghosted to prevent further defeats.

In the east a savage and bloody war was raging. Poland and there bitter rivals Muscovy were fighting yet again. The war drag on and on as Polish offensives were halted by the bitter Russian winter and the bravery of Russian troops. Poland expended all resources in an attempt to break Moscow but with the nation cried for peace all hope was lost. One poor, wrong culture, wrong religion province was finally given to Moscow in a hope to bring a lasting peace.

With England's diplomatic connections in good order and the weakening of the French economy the nation braces itself for the France's inevitable counter attack. The only variable in this equation is Castile. If Castile is not willing to leave the British Isles or decides that assisting France is a wise diplomatic move then England will be in for a long and tough fight.

All of Europe is littered with conflicting areas of interests and bitter rivalries. In the South the Ottoman Empire and Venice's naval build up is continuing at stunning speed. The Royal navy is dwarfed by the power of the Turkish fleet but Venice is not far behind. The rich trading nation has a massive military and a respectable economy. The rumors of a Turkish-Polish alliance could be troublesome for Austria and Venice. Brandenburg, isolated and poor is surrounded by the great Austrian power save there eastern border which is shared by the aggressive Polish King. And Muscovy will undoubtaby face another Polish invasion in the future.

AAR - $$$
I didn't get my core on Flanders last time. So can I get it now? (Province 380) and for this session can I have a core in Holland (Province 339)

 

[Therion]

Poland 1408 – 1427

The Third Polish-Muscovian War

This period was probably the worst so far for the Polish leadership. In 1408, King Jagiello had one thing in mind – vengeance against Moscow for its previous aggressions against Lithuania. Polish and Russian armies were quantitatively equal and the Polish had a cutting edge in technology by having the means to conduct assaults. To further boost the morale, Jagiello fashioned this war as a holy one and had himself crowned as the Defender of the Catholic faith. And so the war started. Three Muscovians provinces were immediately and successfully assaulted. A drive for rich Novgorod, which could have effectively ended the war, failed and from that moment onwards it seemed that God abandoned the Poles. One battle loss after another ended up reversing the offensive, bringing Russian cannon-fodder in Ruthenia. The battles were colossal and the losses for the Poles were terrible. The Russians strategically stationed themselves behind the Don River effectively preventing the Poles from being able to retake their provinces and launch a counteroffensive. Meanwhile, the usual war-time rebellions, organised by the usual treacherous nobles, plagued Poland and while the remaining army tried to remove them, the Russians kept offering seemingly “generous” truces which, in reality, only served to further instigate rebellions by nobles who claimed to be tired of a warmongering monarch who would not be drawn to accept defeat. This claim could well have been legitimate for the Polish army, manpower and gold reserves were utterly depleted. At this point, only God could save Poland – and he did! The Russians got themselves embedded in diplomatic problems with the mighty Ottoman Empire over the future of the Golden Horde, and the Russians were forced to proclaim a white truce with the otherwise defeated Poles. However, amid all the diplomatic confusion, Russia actually continued the war with Poland’s Teutonic allies. By now, King Jagiello, veteran of a thousand battles, was insane…..

The Fourth Polish-Muscovian War

Just a couple of days after the ceasefire, Jagiello the Mad again declared won against Russia – a move which thoroughly stunned the international community. Poland was still in shambles; a quarter of Poland was taken or in the process of being taken by rebels and the Polish army numbered a meagre 15,000 infantry. Jagiello’s terrible fieriness led his army to butcher all the rebels and assault their cities within a couple of months. While the Russians were besieging a couple of Ruthenian provinces, Jagiello led his army straight to Novgorod which he successfully assaulted, defeating a couple of Russian armies and taking another minor city in the process. This success, albeit temporary, was to have a great impact on the confidence of the Polish people. The Muscovians eventually reversed the success and sued for white peace.

Post-War Events

After the war, Jagiello summoned his vassal, the Duke of Masovia, and informed him that Masovia was to be immediately annexed to the Polish crown. There was no reasoning with Jagiello now and the Duke had no choice but to accept. Aside from some petty skirmishes with the Scandivian Kingdoms and Jagiello's usual fits of insanity, the only major event was the declaration of war by the Golden Horde whose Khan was annoyed by Poland's arbitrary and aggressive foreign policy. The hundred-thousand-strong Tatar Horde was no match for twenty-thousand Poles however. The latter quickly took the two Ruthenian provinces they wanted and assaulted their capital and also kidnapped a couple of Mongol explorers who are summoned in the court every night to utter tales about the Orient...

On-time - Cash
AAR - Cash
Core - 254

 

[Mats_SX]

Austrian AAR 1378 - 1427


Centralizing power

The Duchy of Austria had for decades been a feudal nation, relying on her vassals for soldiers, financial support and diplomatic stability. Wealth and power had not characterised the Duchy, but peace and freedom among her subjects. The people lived on great terms, and the nobility were under relative control. But all this would change, as Austria slowly exited the Medieval era, and approached the 15th Century. A new Duke was crowned, Albrecht III, and his rule were to change the course of the Duchy, in a way that would change history.

Albrecht III was a strong believer in the might of befriending the nobility to keep the peasants under control. The feudal lords were allowed more economical rights, while at the same time deprived of their ruling power by the iron-fisted Albrecht. The vassalized states of the Rhine, that had been made loyal by Rudolf IV, were now annexed, one by one. With their limited military power, and complete lack of foreign support, the rulers had no choice but to surrender and celebrate the Duke's glory, or face execution. Not many chose the gallows. When the very rich city of Strassburg was made a direct possession of the Duchy, Albrecht was able to receive the Pope's allowance to receive the title of Archduke of the Rhine, a left-over title from the long gone Kingdom of Lotharingia.

The Archduke Albrecht had now other matters to deal with. The army was in terrible shape, having consisted of mercenaries hired by the local vassal-rulers, disloyal and weak of heart. Not fit for his new title of Archduke, the army went through series of reforms, that eventually, after the demise of Albrecht, would come to be the most advanced and qualitative soldiers in the whole civilized world, well worthy of defending the Austrian Duchy from her enemies. But the main point that Albrecht were criticized for, due to this endeavour, was just that last point; the enemies of Austria. Who were they, the nobles asked sarcastically, knowing well that Albrecht was a diplomat of high standards, and had befriended all the major powers that neighboured his realm.

But when Albrecht died tragically, in August 1395, and his disoriented son took over the rule, Austria's situation took a turn for the worse. Albrecht IV, while sharing his father's name, did not share his father's burning ambition for power and glory. He was content with the wine and music his position had entitled him to. Unfortunately he was not as decadent as the foul Turk in Constantinople, and was hardly interested in courtesans, or even his own wife, the Duchess! Due to this, his rule was a troublesome time, with no heir being born, which enabled the greedy nobles to conspire against him. What stopped them from doing so already at Albrecht IV's coronation, was the elite guard that Albrecht III had instituted. In fact, this elite corps was impossible to bribe, impossible to overcome and impossible to stand, if you opposed it. And this spirit of arms spread over to the regular army, also making it hard to deal with. But as the Archduke was incompetent and lazy, and his elite guard became older and older, his security diminished. Only three weeks after the death of the last of the original veterans of the elite guard, whom all had been personally chosen by Albrecht III, the nobles acted against the heirless Archduke. The 19th September of 1404, after only 9 years on the throne, Albrecht IV died, and with him his line of inheritance was ended.



The Habsburg era begins

After nearly two weeks of chaos in Vienna, resulting in instability on a high diplomatic level, with the Count of Nürnberg declaring independence, a man with a willpower of steel and an extensive military education seized power, loosely claiming to be the son-son-son of a cousin of Rudolf der Stifter. The traces of the claim were never fully researched, due to the opposition against the self-proclaimed Archduke quickly "disappearing". The 12th of October 1404 Albert V was consecrated in Vienna, and his rights to the throne was recognized by the Pope, who was largely under the control of the Venetian Doge, who in his turn had been the major supporter of Albert's claim to Austria.

Albert was a strict dictator. He decided to continue the efforts of Albrecht III, and one of his first acts in power was to make himself heir to the old Duke of Würtemberg, despite the Duke's four sons all being very able men. Albert was however able to convince the Duke by threatening to reveal his affairs with local witches. The Duke, unwillingly to be sent to Rome to be "examined" by the Holy Inquisition, added a note in his will that Albert would inherit the throne, in case the Duke himself remarried. Perhaps not so surprisingly, the Duke's wife died within the month, and one of Albert's cousin-children became the new bride; 'as a token of appreciative sorrow from the lenient Archduke', as the official decree read.

After this very flexible, and also very merciless, manoeuvre, Albert's rule became uncontested and very, very uninhibited. The Archduke was able to crush the last free states in the Holy Roman Empire, the Princedoms of Hessen, Kleve and Berg. The Prince-Elector of Saxony was however crowned Holy Roman Emperor, just before Albert's troops were able to incorporate it into the Austrian sphere, and they were therefore left, 'as an example of freedom'. The Margraviate of Brandenburg did have recognized claims on Saxony, and the Archduke decided to show mercy, 'just this once'. After these conquests, Albert turned his attention to Bohemia. The Czechs did not have much resistance in them, and the vast area, together with the rich silver mine in Sudeten, were now crown fiefs of Austria.

But Albert had perhaps acted too rash. The Count of Nürnberg, his father's son for sure, once again declared his realm independent from Austria, an act which chocked Albert a bit. Busy with putting down revolts by Czech peasant revolts, and increasing taxes in most areas, he did not mind much for the foolhardy count. Time would show that his non-reaction was wise; the county soon suffered from internal strife, as the farmers did not want another war to devastate their lands. Without much effort, Nürnberg became once again an Austrian vassal.



France

The King of England, Henry V, had launched a large invasion across the Channel. The king of France, Charles, was taken by surprise, and with Paris undefended, the English flag soon waved victorious over Normandy as well as the Lowlands. Despite French numbers, Henry's military genius was well before his time, and any resistance was useless. The French had to give up a large part of the Dutch coastline, including the rich trade centre in Flanders, as well as seceding the strategic port in Calais. With the Archduke Albert's incorporation of the Archbishopric of Cologne into the Austrian Duchy, the Lowlands now had three different competitors. Albert's influence in the area had earlier been close to nil, and the king of England had hidden behind his Channel, but now France was on the defensive. Luxemburg and Liége were under Austrian control, and an unhindered route for supplies and messages all the way to Vienna had been made, following the annexation of Berg.

Albert had never been know as a man to back down or bow to foreign lords. Would he acknowledge the French fiefs in Trier and Münster, violating Albert's rights to his own people, or the large French control over the Lowlands, wealthy and strategic as they were? Only future would show...



Ontime: Deflation
AAR: Deflation
Core: 1926.

 

[martmol]

The Margraviate of Brandenburg is utterly insulted by The Archduke's attempts to take over Brandenburg claimed provinces, and thereby dissolving our Vienna pact. we anxiously wait for a Austrian explanation.

 

[Therion]

In case there is a human Sweden, I'd like a core on 461 (Kiev) instead of 254 (Stockholm).

 

[Mats_SX]

In case there is a human Sweden, I'd like a core on 461 (Kiev) instead of 254 (Stockholm).

I doubt there'll be one, so your core stays for now.

 

[unmerged(111528)]

Ottoman Empire 743 H - 762 H (1408-1427 for the infidel)

After a few problems with ghosts (had to have EU2 open 3 time btw - one for me and 2 windows for 2 ghosts), and a couple of other problems - either people not managing to load at the start, people crashing after loading, or the game simply refusing to start after everyone was suposedly in, we managed to play a few years.

And so the war against all kind of mongol sucession states continued. The war was going smoothly for the Turks and the Sultan was happy. But all of a sudden, a massive problem regarding communications struck the Empire, totaly undermining the war (OOC: crashed during war and people kept playing for an ENTIRE YEAR - this is unacceptable - UNACCEPTABLE). And once the problems were finally fixed, our armies had been wiped out and a lot of our sieges had been lost. The sultan was extremely displeased at this. The situation was so bad that we were forced to mint, and, even ask the monarch of england for a loan. For an infidel, he was quite smart to accept our proposal.

In the end, victory against the Chagatai Khanate was inevitable, but was far more expensive then expected. The communication problems did not only screw us monetarily - but also in terms of vassals. Kutch, which was our vassal, was annexed by Delhi's allies. The Sultan had attacked Delhi just before the problems struck the empire, but was unable to lift the siege of Kutch, and thus the vassal was, forever lost, mainly due to the fact our troops did not know where to move because of the same communication problems. In the midst of all this trouble, yet more trouble persisted elsewhere. I am obviously speaking about Russian-Polish relations (if we can actually call it, "relations" - i believe the term "quarrels" is more apropriate). Polish troops started marching everywhere to the border of Muscowy, and the latter when alerted of this, quickly peaced the Golden Horde which they were at war with - truly, a blessing of Allah. The war lasted for so long, but so long, that it enabled our veterans to march from the far east, and conquer all of the Golden Horde in a lightning campaign. Of course, part of this was thanks to Murad, one of the best military genius of his time - despite all the rumours of a western leader being the best general of the era, a general by the name of Henry V, we refuse to believe in this. Infidels are, in no way superior to us. It seemed however, that Muscowy was with the intention of wipping Poland out of the map. Although the Sultan has no love for infidels, we could not tolerate such and we sent an emissary to Russia demanding a white peace with their christian brothers. And with the Golden Horde under our control, enabling us to peace for whatever we wanted against the same nation, the Muscowites obviously agreed to our modest proposal. And, of course, since the Sultan is a man of his word, he did not do any harm to the Golden Horde - on the contrary - He placed them under his protection. And thus, the mongols became our vassals. Of course this did not please the russian infidel in any way, but we just want peace and protection to the sons of Allah - 2 things we cannot hope the infidel to supply us with.

In the rest of europe, things were getting worse and worse - france soundly lost against england - despite all friendly warnings to the french monarch that they needed a bigger fleet. And austria, kept gobbling up more and more pieces of germany, enslaving all of the once free peoples of the holy roman empire. Venice decided to follow the same steps, and is now far bigger then before. Of course, their bigger size is relative - compared to us, they are still an ant. They cant support more then 400 ships while we can support more then double of that. And their army is so weak, that we do not fear them... for the time being. Of course this could change all of a sudden, just like the world changed drastically in the last 2 decades...

But Allah willingly, it shall not (negatively for us, at least)... Because this is...

Leaders: 1 admiral and 1 general
Ontime: deflation
AAr: deflation
Core: 1651
Other Edit: 600 gold to England - i know the loan they gave to me was bigger but i will pay it shortly next session.

-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

There are also other things i would like to discuss:

1º Kutch, my vassal, that was annexed while i crashed at war and ghosted for an year. I was unable to defend them because i crashed afterwards and no one bothered to rehost for me. After being conquered by Delhi and their allies, it seems however that Kutch declared indepedence, while i was ghosted during the last 30 minutes of the game. If it is not too much to ask, i would like to have them edited as vassals, again with the initial date of the vassalization being 1395 (the date i vassalized). If you think that i am exagerating, i would like to note that i did not ask to be ghosted for so long during a period of war and as such i was unable to defend my vassal.
2º Also about the period i was ghosted which was roughly one year - during the period my armies in chagatai khanate were, easily defeated one after the other since i had left them conducting mass sieges everywhere. If i was there, they wouldnt have been slaughtered since i had my general and a lot of cavalry around. Although i lost a lot more cash, i would like to have at the very least 400 ducats edited into my treasury, or 0.3% deflation (deflation is a more rational thing to do). Again, i would like to remember that i did not ask to be ghosted for such a long period of time - 1 year is nothing but at war it is enough to screw you.
3º Regarding people attacking vassals of people that are ghosted. I dont know what the hell hapened on the Golden Horde, but i cannot understand how it is permited for people to grab provinces from an AI nation which liege is a ghosted human. While i have no use for the ruthenian provinces Poland took, i wouldnt like to see any more crap like this happening. I didnt intend to, but i could have dishonoured my deal with poland if i was in the game, and thus poland wouldnt have taken these provinces without fighting me first.

I would also like to point something else out: i cannot post in these forums on a regular basis. Actually, i am afraid i can only post in these forums in order to write the AAr and thus receive a bonus. Reason? I give you the reason: i currently have no internet at my home, and in my job where i often play EU2 i cannot acess internet explorer either because the computer keeps track of every site i acess, and if my boss notices this, i am doomed. If you are, now, questioning yourself how i managed to post this: i will answer you - i had to ask a friend of mine to register himself at paradox and post this (and i do not wish to bother him daily). So if the gamemasters understand my position, i would like to receive AAr/ontime cookies even if someone else post this, someone like Bob, Therion or Wari.

Another thing - Holland declares independence from france shortly after game start - roughly about 5 months. Better edit control of the province back to france since 5 months is not enough to either siege it, or assault it (holland is a small fort and the chances of a failed assault arent that small).

P.S: Please, notify me of any possible answer to this post via ICQ since i am, has stated previously, unable to check Paradox forums for the time being.

Thanks. The_Spartan.

 

[martmol]

Welcome!

 

[Therion]

3º Regarding people attacking vassals of people that are ghosted. I dont know what the hell hapened on the Golden Horde, but i cannot understand how it is permited for people to grab provinces from an AI nation which liege is a ghosted human. While i have no use for the ruthenian provinces Poland took, i wouldnt like to see any more crap like this happening. I didnt intend to, but i could have dishonoured my deal with poland if i was in the game, and thus poland wouldnt have taken these provinces without fighting me first.

I have no qualms with that as long as the rule is CONSISTENT.

The Sultan himself ( ) attacked Savoy, a Venetian (ghost) vassal, and captured Izmir.

Venice attacked a Castilian (ghost) vassal and captured Ragusa.

Whereas in my case, I did not even attack. GH attacked me and handed the two Ruthenian provinces in their one and only peace offer, which only an idiot could have refused.

 

[Mats_SX]

1º Kutch, my vassal, that was annexed while i crashed at war and ghosted for an year. I was unable to defend them because i crashed afterwards and no one bothered to rehost for me. After being conquered by Delhi and their allies, it seems however that Kutch declared indepedence, while i was ghosted during the last 30 minutes of the game. If it is not too much to ask, i would like to have them edited as vassals, again with the initial date of the vassalization being 1395 (the date i vassalized). If you think that i am exagerating, i would like to note that i did not ask to be ghosted for so long during a period of war and as such i was unable to defend my vassal.

It will be edited as a vassal.

2º Also about the period i was ghosted which was roughly one year - during the period my armies in chagatai khanate were, easily defeated one after the other since i had left them conducting mass sieges everywhere. If i was there, they wouldnt have been slaughtered since i had my general and a lot of cavalry around. Although i lost a lot more cash, i would like to have at the very least 400 ducats edited into my treasury, or 0.3% deflation (deflation is a more rational thing to do). Again, i would like to remember that i did not ask to be ghosted for such a long period of time - 1 year is nothing but at war it is enough to screw you.

The deflation will be given.

3º Regarding people attacking vassals of people that are ghosted. I dont know what the hell hapened on the Golden Horde, but i cannot understand how it is permited for people to grab provinces from an AI nation which liege is a ghosted human. While i have no use for the ruthenian provinces Poland took, i wouldnt like to see any more crap like this happening. I didnt intend to, but i could have dishonoured my deal with poland if i was in the game, and thus poland wouldnt have taken these provinces without fighting me first.

I paused the game and wanted to rehost, but both PJL and Nelson guaranteed that there was a deal, and so I decided (seeing what problems a rehost might cause) to keep on playing. First I decided to rule that Poland were not allowed to take any provinces from GH, but continued guarantees from the players convinced me. If you insist on your right to be able to defend your vassal, I will edit the provinces back to GH.

So if the gamemasters understand my position, i would like to receive AAr/ontime cookies even if someone else post this, someone like Bob, Therion or Wari.

I will leave this decision to martmol.

Another thing - Holland declares independence from france shortly after game start - roughly about 5 months. Better edit control of the province back to france since 5 months is not enough to either siege it, or assault it (holland is a small fort and the chances of a failed assault arent that small).

That has been dealt with already.

I will notify you when I get time. If anyone else reads this and The_Spartan is online, please tell him of my answers.


As for the rule of ghosted player vassals:

The Venice situation was due to a ghost-player-vassal annexing a vassal of his. In that case it is allowed. In the GH case, I would normally not allow provinces to be taken (regardless of who dows, that's irrelevant), but I was convinced by 2 players who guaranteed that there was a deal. The standard ruling is that ghost-player-vassals are OFF limits, unless the vassals do something that may cause reason to allow them being attacked. In all cases of rules, the continued and uninterrupted GAMEPLAY comes in first consideration. The GM decides whether a rule is to be excepted or not, but in MOST cases, rule breach will be punished.