WC should probably only be possible as Castile or Yuan.

[Azgabeth]

1. WC should probably be impossible. And frankly it think it is except in certain runs where like 60-70% of the world population dies?

For those of you who don’t know, accepting cultures which you’re going to have to do for WC is directly proportional to the size of the cultural pop. So 100million han chinese might take 10/1 of your cultural capacity.

Hence i think while blobbing is still possible it is only limited to “kindred” culutre groups.

Anyway, if WC is possible. Probably only when starting as Yuan or Castile should a player be able to achieve it.

Also, I think a 1 TAG will be 100% impossible so WC in this context includes subjects.

1. Yuan, we have yet to read the tinto talk on Yuan, but, if a player successfully survives the Red Turbans, and is able to stabilize the economy, it’s honestly just a matter how the game mechanics will work. You’re the largest country in the world after all. Maybe going back to horde? Or expanding the Mandate of Heaven IO?

2. Castille. Realistically speaking, castille came closest to conquering the world in our timeline.

We do not know if there will be any events with the Habsburgs, BUT.

The gameplan is pretty clear:

1. Avoid civil wars(historically between 1337 and 1492 castile fought like 4 or 5 civil wars).

2. Get a mild Black Death(i think this will probably be where most restarts will happen)

2. Focus on Exploration. Once the new world is discovered, the Treaty of Tordesailles Situation will trigger. We don’t know how exactly it will work, but if it’s anything close to Our Timeline… you’ll have to try really hard to form a PU with the second Tordesailles member.

3. Let The conquistadors run wild.

4. Use the newfound wealth to bribe all HRE electors, Spain is the one true emperor.

5. Begin the process of unifying the HRE.

6. At this point the focus should be to Diplo Annex the rest of Europe while colonizing the New World and conquering Asia.

7. Don’t even bother with africa except for trade ports for the Triangle Trade, focus first on asia and on stabilizing those regions.

8. Late game(1750+) as medicine tech gets better start colonizing and conquering Africa.

Ultimately this will depend a lot on the actual stats and numbers for different things, how easy it is to PU/ Diplo annex nations and I wonder how strong Tercios will be, but yeah, seems like a possible strategy

Oh and just to be clear, you will have to commit a lot of genocide because again, there’s limited cultural capacity in this game and how much you use is based off pops. So whenever you go to war make sure you absolutely ruin that land. I mean max it out to 100 devastation and 0 food. Let. Them. Starve. Yes there will be no economy, but dead men cannot revolt.

 

[Sirbab]

What is timur?
Also this is very reductive, plenty of nations are likely able to do it if anyone can, like France, England, timur, China (pick any), Japan, the timurids

Mind you, you really only need a decent power base as integrated territory before you can start destroying the world. Even something like France+Britain+Iberia is probably enough to stomp anyone, especially with tech and naval supremacy on your side. Integrating further territory isn't super necessary.

 

[Nostalgium]

2. Castille. Realistically speaking, castille came closest to conquering the world in our timeline.

Haughty British laughter

 

[Enku7071]

1. Yuan, we have yet to read the tinto talk on Yuan, but, if a player successfully survives the Red Turbans, and is able to stabilize the economy, it’s honestly just a matter how the game mechanics will work. You’re the largest country in the world after all. Maybe going back to horde? Or expanding the Mandate of Heaven IO?

if a player successfully survives the Red Turbans

They are not.
Yuan is a nation destined to crumble, fail, and retreat to the northern steppes to reorganise and regroup. I hope EU5 make things extremely hard for them to survive.
From then, however, as a Northern Yuan, you may yet have a chance, by either going with the Mongols under Dayan Khan or as Oirats under Esen Taishi/Altan Khan/Galdan Khan, but even then it will be one hell of a fate (mind the constant civil wars, succession crises, and Biddhist sectarian conflicts).

Timur has much, MUCH better chance at conquering the Old World instead.

Also, where's the Brits?

 

[W1NTERMU7E]

What’s with the WC obsession, almost no one does WC runs and most of people who play those games wouldn’t be able conquer half of the world. What the point of limiting some challenge run, especially with anti blob system

 

[Azgabeth]

What is timur?
Also this is very reductive, plenty of nations are likely able to do it if anyone can, like France, England, timur, China (pick any), Japan, the timurids

Have you read the Subjects TT? Are we going to just ignore how ridiculously OP Conquistadors are?

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

You can make a solid argument that the Spanish Empire is proof, and not the exception, to the rule that the more you gobble up, the harder it will be from keeping your imperial stomach from bursting. At the height of its power, Spain's overreaching was fighting to keep a hold of its European possessions, while barely keeping the Ottomans' own expansion in check, while struggling to keep France and Britain from gobbling up its Caribbean islands. And this not to mention the problems the Iberian Union caused for Portugal's overseas possessions (except Brazil which did pretty well by it, thanks to Tordesillas loopholes).

Can you imagine a country in that situation tackling India, China and the rest of Europe it hadn't pissed off yet?

So, the idea that Castille came the closest to conquering the world?.... I guess you CAN argue that they tried the HARDEST, and got the FARTHEST, and lucked out the MOST, but its like saying that a dude who managed to get 20km into the first marathon ever before his legs broke and he fell down a cliff "came the closest to finishing it". An impressive effort, but still not crossing the finishing line, and still not getting anywhere near close to it.

But all of us understand because of this that WC is an inherently ridiculous idea. History's greatest powers usually reached their circunstances by capitalising on highly favorable local circunstances to establish hegemons; conditions that were usually temporary. So drawing a firm line between "who should be able to do it and who shouldn't" in a video game?... ehhh, it's iffy. Me no likey.

 

[Lord Lambert]

I think WC will be possible but not as a "normal" tag, at least not without exploits. I think WC will be done with hordes, as they conquer any territory they control (like Imperator's diadochi wars)

I give Lambda like.... a month before he manages it. (He did an Imperator WC after less than a week iirc)

 

[GeneralNoob]

1337 is still the age of mongol rule. Somehow in OPs mind they are excluded and not a likely candidate. We could also talk about how multi-ethnical/religious societies like the Mughals/Ottomans argueably had more experience in complex socities and why they are a likelier candidate than the spanish, who pretty much forced their way through everyone.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

I think WC will be possible but not as a "normal" tag, at least not without exploits. I think WC will be done with hordes, as they conquer any territory they control (like Imperator's diadochi wars)

I give Lambda like.... a month before he manages it. (He did an Imperator WC after less than a week iirc)

I would only add the caveat that Imperator is one of the easiest games to do a WC with the right tag. I've done it three times with Carthage, Rome and Macedon and I would describe myself as a casual player. I otherwise agree.

 

[Azgabeth]

Haughty British laughter

Also, where's the Brits?

While the British Empire did become the largest empire earth.

It could never had conquered the world. By 19th century the other Great Powers had managed a balance of power.

Maybe if they win the HWY? But then again they don’t get access to Conquistadors.

Conversely Charles V actually had all the tools necessary to unite western europe, especially after the battle of Pavia, he was just too stuck in a medieval thinking.

 

[Lord Lambert]

I would only add the caveat that Imperator is one of the easiest games to do a WC with the right tag. I've done it three times with Carthage, Rome and Macedon and I would describe myself as a casual player. I otherwise agree.

Sure. I only point it out because Lambda is known for being kinda insane at this sorta stuff. He has the in game world record for fastest EU4 WC, too. I bring up Imperator for 2 reasons; the diadochi war CB that lets you conquire on a siege, and the fact that Lambda did a WC in it after owning the game for only a week.

 

[Jarvin]

What’s with the WC obsession, almost no one does WC runs and most of people who play those games wouldn’t be able conquer half of the world

Agree with the first one but disagree with the latter if you are talking about EU4.

The big thing in these discussions is that there's a difference between "I can conquer the world in the timeframe it usually takes people to just quit the campaign" and "I can conquer the world before the game ends".

EU5 will cover 500 years. A good EU4 player can conquer the world by 1600, or 150 years after the timeframe's start. Blobbing could be made an order of magnitude harder than in EU4 and a WC would still be "possible" just because of how insanely long the timeframe is.

 

[Azgabeth]

I think WC will be possible but not as a "normal" tag, at least not without exploits. I think WC will be done with hordes, as they conquer any territory they control (like Imperator's diadochi wars)

Oh i didn’t that’s how hordes work.

Is making yuan a horde viable? Or does the Mandate of Heaven IO require a monarchy for the leader? Are you allowed to tell us?

Turning Yuan into a Horde after surviving the Red Turbans was part of my strategy for WC.

 

[Jarvin]

It could never had conquered the world. By 19th century the other Great Powers had managed a balance of power.

History is not a good determining factor of whether WC in EU5 should be possible or not.

Think about it this way: human player even in their first campaign has already more knowledge and capacity than a historical ruler did, but no actual player would be able to conquer the world while having like 10 hours in the game.

Add like 50 campaigns of experience and a human-led country compared to a historical country like GB has:

- Access to information about the state of the world that historical countries lacked
- 100% efficiency when it comes to turning orders into actions
- Access to meta-knowledge about "what will come next" stuff like Americas not only existing but also knowing how to colonize it in a way that is most efficient
- Being able to manage a region 10000km away from the capital just as easily as the capital itself, time doesn't matter.

You cannot recreate the reality of ruling a historical country, because the player by default is capable of more than a historical country was.
And they also have the ability to infinitely retry attempting to solve each problem until they do it the best way.

Lambda's WC record wouldn't have been possible without abusing lots of alt+F4ing



I'm not arguing in favor of making WCs easy, but I think it should be a discussion largely separate from the realities of history.
I think WCs are bad insofar as they are symptom of poor systems around internal country management, diplomacy and such, as well as AI being plainly bad, but I feel like arguing against it solely from the perspective of "historical countries couldn't do it" is silly

 

[GeneralNoob]

History is not a good determining factor of whether WC in EU5 should be possible or not.

Think about it this way: human player even in their first campaign has already more knowledge and capacity than a historical ruler did, but no actual player would be able to conquer the world while having like 10 hours in the game.

Add like 50 campaigns of experience and a human-led country compared to a historical country like GB has:

- Access to information about the state of the world that historical countries lacked
- 100% efficiency when it comes to turning orders into actions
- Access to meta-knowledge about "what will come next" stuff like Americas not only existing but also knowing how to colonize it in a way that is most efficient
- Being able to manage a region 10000km away from the capital just as easily as the capital itself, time doesn't matter.

You cannot recreate the reality of ruling a historical country, because the player by default is capable of more than a historical country was.
And they also have the ability to infinitely retry attempting to solve each problem until they do it the best way.

Lambda's WC record wouldn't have been possible without abusing lots of alt+F4ing



I'm not arguing in favor of making WCs easy, but I think it should be a discussion largely separate from the realities of history.
I think WCs are bad insofar as they are symptom of poor systems around internal country management, diplomacy and such, as well as AI being plainly bad, but I feel like arguing against it solely from the perspective of "historical countries couldn't do it" is silly

I may add: medical and technological breakthroughs in the late 18th century enabled colonalism in the old world. You had some outposts here and there, but it wasnt until these breakthroughs that soldiers could enter deep into Africa/India and do something. You are technologically and (in case of Europeans) genetically handicapped to do a world-conquest. Not that I believe that the Mongols would fare better in Nigeria, but if we want to go by history, no nation can do a world conquests until these breakthroughs happen. It doesnt matter how much knowledge you have, since these breakthroughs require a bunch of technologies and understandings that wont come around a couple of centuries into the game.

 

[ATSCMS]

While the British Empire did become the largest empire earth.

Second*

But you're partially right, world conquest should be impossible, unless you use speedrun type of exploits. Like in this video:

 

[Lakigigar]

Timur: "what am I to you?"

 

[Azgabeth]

1337 is still the age of mongol rule. Somehow in OPs mind they are excluded and not a likely candidate. We could also talk about how multi-ethnical/religious societies like the Mughals/Ottomans argueably had more experience in complex socities and why they are a likelier candidate than the spanish, who pretty much forced their way through everyone.

Sigh… i don’t want to be that guy, but…

Geography Geography Geography.

For a WC speedrun you have to be able to take the Americas.

Central Asian nations like Delhi, Ottomans Golden Horde are not in a good position to do that.

 

[Baphomet enjoyer]

Time is the main limiting factor in world conquest and you got plenty of it; 500 years is a long long time. Truces are the second most important thing. If truce breaking is possible then that will give you a lot of wiggle room. If the game isn't balanced to correctly to make control a truly limiting factor like government capacity was then I wouldn't be surprised if you could do a world conquest with any decently large non-american nation.