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Something about the gameplay.
All of us except for LM+ have agrred that it is possible to play on Saturday at 18:00 GMT.
So there will be a session this Saturday at 18:00 GMT.
If someone has a problem please post to see what can be done. If someone is not there and has not notidied in time, then I suggest we start without him, since this is common practice in other MP games I am in...
All of us except for LM+ have agrred that it is possible to play on Saturday at 18:00 GMT.
So there will be a session this Saturday at 18:00 GMT.
If someone has a problem please post to see what can be done. If someone is not there and has not notidied in time, then I suggest we start without him, since this is common practice in other MP games I am in...
Off-limits nations:
Update: Because of objections, the proposals #1 and #2 have been dropped. All remaining items are still being considered.
One of the key things that keeps a MP game healthy is availabile major nations that have not been too badly worked over. If a "fun" nation is intact, new players are much more likely to come forward, and any losses in our original group can be replaced.
Therefore:
1. Proposal: That the nations of USA, Spain, and Japan and their colonies be strictly off-limits. No land purchases or wars at all, although other diplomacy is quite OK.
2. Proposal - this is more controversial - that Austria be partly off-limits. Except for the pre-WW1 Italian lands. I think that, if Germany was allowed to unite without Austria getting a word in edgewise, that Italy ought to be able to fight Austria and take her pre-WW1 territories without interferance.
3. Proposal: That new players be left in peace by all human players until three years have passed, or until they engage in a war (any war) by their own free will (a war that they chose to fight, in other words), whichever comes first.
4. Proposal: That any new player - at his option - be allowed to ask for all the existing factories in his nation to be deleted, and to get a MP factory (if after 1860) in his capital to permit the rebuilding of his industry in a less annoying configuration.
A few requests for very basic rules
While nobody wants to have a zillion rules, a few easy-to-do actions make the game unfun for everyone except the person doing them.
1. Shore Bombardments. If shore bombardments are allowed, any nation with superiority at sea can cruise 2 CAs or 1 BB or DN up to Russia or Italy's capital, and cripple them with a totally unstoppable amphibious landing. That's most unfair. Let's forbid bombardments.
Update: Because of objections, the proposals #1 and #2 have been dropped. All remaining items are still being considered.
One of the key things that keeps a MP game healthy is availabile major nations that have not been too badly worked over. If a "fun" nation is intact, new players are much more likely to come forward, and any losses in our original group can be replaced.
Therefore:
1. Proposal: That the nations of USA, Spain, and Japan and their colonies be strictly off-limits. No land purchases or wars at all, although other diplomacy is quite OK.
2. Proposal - this is more controversial - that Austria be partly off-limits. Except for the pre-WW1 Italian lands. I think that, if Germany was allowed to unite without Austria getting a word in edgewise, that Italy ought to be able to fight Austria and take her pre-WW1 territories without interferance.
3. Proposal: That new players be left in peace by all human players until three years have passed, or until they engage in a war (any war) by their own free will (a war that they chose to fight, in other words), whichever comes first.
4. Proposal: That any new player - at his option - be allowed to ask for all the existing factories in his nation to be deleted, and to get a MP factory (if after 1860) in his capital to permit the rebuilding of his industry in a less annoying configuration.
A few requests for very basic rules
While nobody wants to have a zillion rules, a few easy-to-do actions make the game unfun for everyone except the person doing them.
1. Shore Bombardments. If shore bombardments are allowed, any nation with superiority at sea can cruise 2 CAs or 1 BB or DN up to Russia or Italy's capital, and cripple them with a totally unstoppable amphibious landing. That's most unfair. Let's forbid bombardments.
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off limits nations:
1: why? surely this should be diplomatic?
2: you want to stop us from attacking your neighbour spain, and also stop us from attacking austria? fair huh
3: seems fair to me
shore bombards...
surely thats the point in researching and building the techs? if anything is to be forbid then yes, forbid bombarding, but capital provinces only.
you already took what you want from france and switzerland... is it right that you should now be banning germany and russia from doing the same?
1: why? surely this should be diplomatic?
2: you want to stop us from attacking your neighbour spain, and also stop us from attacking austria? fair huh
3: seems fair to me
shore bombards...
surely thats the point in researching and building the techs? if anything is to be forbid then yes, forbid bombarding, but capital provinces only.
you already took what you want from france and switzerland... is it right that you should now be banning germany and russia from doing the same?
List of auction items:
Please let me know if this is an incomplete or incorrect list of the lands to auction, or if there is any doubt about borders:
- Borneo (1836 Dutch portion)
- Curaco, Danish Virgin Islands, Dutch Guyana
- Goa
- Java
- Malaya (Johor, Siamese Malaya, Malacca, but not British Singapore).
- Mozambique (Portuguese, plus 3 unclaimed provs)
- Portuguese West Africa (Angola and unclaimed Angola, Guinea, Sao Tome, Cap Verde Islands)
- Sumatera (Dutch lands and Atjeh)
- The Molucks (Sulawesi island, Boutong, Jilolo, Bouro, Ceram)
- West New Guinea, Sumbaya (1836 Dutch), Bali, Timor. No unclaimed lands included.
- Please ask any questions about territories or proceedures before the auction. One of the advantages of an auction is speed - it's much faster than haggling - and I hope to move pretty quickly through the list of colonies.
Please let me know if this is an incomplete or incorrect list of the lands to auction, or if there is any doubt about borders:
- Borneo (1836 Dutch portion)
- Curaco, Danish Virgin Islands, Dutch Guyana
- Goa
- Java
- Malaya (Johor, Siamese Malaya, Malacca, but not British Singapore).
- Mozambique (Portuguese, plus 3 unclaimed provs)
- Portuguese West Africa (Angola and unclaimed Angola, Guinea, Sao Tome, Cap Verde Islands)
- Sumatera (Dutch lands and Atjeh)
- The Molucks (Sulawesi island, Boutong, Jilolo, Bouro, Ceram)
- West New Guinea, Sumbaya (1836 Dutch), Bali, Timor. No unclaimed lands included.
- Please ask any questions about territories or proceedures before the auction. One of the advantages of an auction is speed - it's much faster than haggling - and I hope to move pretty quickly through the list of colonies.
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i dont think that we should have auctions...
this is a war game, not a dance, we shouldnt need choreography
this is a war game, not a dance, we shouldnt need choreography
We cannot put restrictions to one's strategies within the game from outside the game. This happened once because I tolerated it and stepped back in Africa. No more restrictions of this kind.
1. If something is off limits, it is decided by the diplomatic thread, as it has been done for Egypt and Persia. Not by any rule outside the game. If you want, propose it in the diplomatic thread, where it will be negotiable.
2. The previous answer apply here too.
3. I agree with that.
4. No specific opinion about this.
I agree with the no bombardment on capital provinces only, as was suggested by Coco
1. If something is off limits, it is decided by the diplomatic thread, as it has been done for Egypt and Persia. Not by any rule outside the game. If you want, propose it in the diplomatic thread, where it will be negotiable.
2. The previous answer apply here too.
3. I agree with that.
4. No specific opinion about this.
I agree with the no bombardment on capital provinces only, as was suggested by Coco
I would like to make something clear.
Rules of the game are not diplomacy.
"No tech trading" is a rule, Russia does not get any colonies in Africa is not a rule, it is a diplomatic agreement.
e.g. If nation A desires that nation B does not attack nation C then a valid and fair way to achieve this is to say :
"Nation B, do not attack nation C, or else ...... ".
Making a rule to forbid nation B to attack nation C is totally unacceptable, because IT IS NOT DIPLOMACY. This is foul play .
Rules are made to regulate a smooth game, not to put restrictions to players nor help anyone.
I hope this is crystal to all.
Rules of the game are not diplomacy.
"No tech trading" is a rule, Russia does not get any colonies in Africa is not a rule, it is a diplomatic agreement.
e.g. If nation A desires that nation B does not attack nation C then a valid and fair way to achieve this is to say :
"Nation B, do not attack nation C, or else ...... ".
Making a rule to forbid nation B to attack nation C is totally unacceptable, because IT IS NOT DIPLOMACY. This is foul play .
Rules are made to regulate a smooth game, not to put restrictions to players nor help anyone.
I hope this is crystal to all.
And another thing ...
Is it just chance that as soon as I announced my intentions regarding Austria in the dip thread (20/3) this new RULE about Austria came up ?
If anyone objects, he should have replied in the dip thread, not here.
Any objection in the diplomacy thread is welcome and debatable, but not here.
Is it just chance that as soon as I announced my intentions regarding Austria in the dip thread (20/3) this new RULE about Austria came up ?
If anyone objects, he should have replied in the dip thread, not here.
Any objection in the diplomacy thread is welcome and debatable, but not here.
Not replied for a while...
Hello,
Everyone!!
I have not replied for a while just wondering, everything been going well?
Still looking for games, can't seem to find very many
Regards
Blair
Hello,
Everyone!!
I have not replied for a while just wondering, everything been going well?
Still looking for games, can't seem to find very many
Regards
Blair
Blair Lamond said:Hello,
Everyone!!
I have not replied for a while just wondering, everything been going well?
Still looking for games, can't seem to find very many
Regards
Blair
Hello, Blair!
We haven't get very far in our game. The year is 1841 now. We have argued on some game rules, as you can see here in this thread.
Nobody hasn't taken any lands from Austria, and it would still be a good country to play, if you want to. I think human controlled Austria would make the game much more interesting. We are not playing this week because of the Easter, and everyone has something else to do.
Gentlemen, I have resigned, effective immediately, over irreconcilable differences with TheGeneral. If you wish to know why, I'm placing the release of a transcript of my last MSN chat with him at his discretion.
One is available through me if he did not save it, but I will neither release nor comment upon it unless he does.
If there are difficulties hosting the game further, I will consider hosting it as a hands-off (from my perspective) game, perhaps from rump Switzerland. Though I would much prefer that you find an alternate host.
One is available through me if he did not save it, but I will neither release nor comment upon it unless he does.
If there are difficulties hosting the game further, I will consider hosting it as a hands-off (from my perspective) game, perhaps from rump Switzerland. Though I would much prefer that you find an alternate host.
With great reluctance, I resign from this game. Reasons are not available for public inspection (this is a players-only issue). Naturally, I wish all remaining players the best: good luck to you all.
Brasidas and LM, I am really disappointed in your decisions to resign from the game. I could understand, if the reason was that you could not play anymore because of the situations in your lifes. The disagreements related to game rules with other players shouldn't be a reason to leave the game. All players can not be forced to use same tactics by rules. Everyone has his own style to play and others should accept them to play this way. You just have to diplomatically let them know the possible consequences, if they are playing too aggressively. To prevent attacking some countries by rules, it should have been done before starting the game, not now.
Is there still a possibility, you could consider continuing the game again. I don't know all the details of the disagreements you have had, but I suppose it has something to do with the issue, that you are considering Russia to be too powerful and still wanting to expand further. Have you used all diplomatic options to prevent unwanted expansion? Why just not DOW Russia and any countries she is allied with insted of resigning?
I am not too eager to continue either, if some of the players are stepping out now. We have put much energy and time to get this game running. If it will collapse now, it will not encourage to try mp again.
Is there still a possibility, you could consider continuing the game again. I don't know all the details of the disagreements you have had, but I suppose it has something to do with the issue, that you are considering Russia to be too powerful and still wanting to expand further. Have you used all diplomatic options to prevent unwanted expansion? Why just not DOW Russia and any countries she is allied with insted of resigning?
I am not too eager to continue either, if some of the players are stepping out now. We have put much energy and time to get this game running. If it will collapse now, it will not encourage to try mp again.
This is a public question, so I will say only what did not drive me to leave.Jaeger74 said:
Anyone who resigned because of other players' nations getting too large in fair and open gameplay would truly deserve condemnation. Building a successful nation is part of the game!
Nor would I ever leave because a particular rule proposal of mine was not accepted. Indeed, as you will note in my post above, I was happy to edit it to withdraw the proposals that others did not agree with, even before all players had had their say. No one can say that I pushed the idea too far: I offered it, heard objections, and withdrew it without undue fuss. Same story on my auctions idea: Four players were prepared to try them, one was not. Given this situation, I thought it best to propose that we not hold auctions.
I am willing to explain to any player - in private - my reasons for leaving. All players except one, however, will get a slightly "sanitized" version.
I just wanted to make some things clear.
1. In my last MSN chat with Brasidas and LM, the only thing I did is say that I cannot accept changing the rules in the middle of a game, when not all players agree. This is unheard of.
2. Some of the rules proposed were 'photographic', having Russia as their main figure. The rule about Austria appeared less than one day after my intetnions for the Ukranians in Austria were made known. One is free to check the dates of the posts to confirm this.
3. I do not see any reason for Brasidas and LM to resign. In any game, the rules are agreed upon before its start, unless something extraordinary comes up. I do not think there is any exceptional reason to deny players to use whatever strategy they wish to pursue.
4. The last session of the game went on rather nicely and I do not see why we cannot continue this way.
1. In my last MSN chat with Brasidas and LM, the only thing I did is say that I cannot accept changing the rules in the middle of a game, when not all players agree. This is unheard of.
2. Some of the rules proposed were 'photographic', having Russia as their main figure. The rule about Austria appeared less than one day after my intetnions for the Ukranians in Austria were made known. One is free to check the dates of the posts to confirm this.
3. I do not see any reason for Brasidas and LM to resign. In any game, the rules are agreed upon before its start, unless something extraordinary comes up. I do not think there is any exceptional reason to deny players to use whatever strategy they wish to pursue.
4. The last session of the game went on rather nicely and I do not see why we cannot continue this way.
Jaeger,Jaeger74 said:
I do indeed have a tight schedule these days. I have a busy life and a longer-standing and frankly more enjoyable HoI2 game on-going. If I'm not getting enough enjoyment out of one of my time commitments, it's not worth it.
As shown in the mailed transcript, my disagreements are not merely related to game rules but with the respect and willingness to listen to what I had to say. I can accept a powerful Russia or Germany. I just can not accept accusations of cheating, a lack of respect, or the jumping to conclusions and lack of a will to comprehend when I am trying to explain something.
It has nothing to do with diplomatic options or warfare or differences in playing style.
I regret any discouragement my choice makes in your willingness to play MP. I hope that you are able to continue your game with Blair and the remaining players.
I do not wish to further discuss laundry in a public forum. Feel free to read and reply to my e-mail.
Sincere, Condolences And Best Wishes!!
Hello,
Everyone...
I was rather saddened to hear that both Brasidas and LM had left the game?
I wish both these players the very best luck with anything they may do in the future!! have fun on any future games that you may have.
It is saddening that we lose to valuable players from our little community however as said often "the empire strikes back" I don't believe it will be very difficult to replace them (sorry guys!!) as I am aware due to my marketing experience that a significant number of people are purchasing the game and I believe that they will come looking of online fun!!
Hopefully we can find replacements soon, or entice them back to the game...
I know not the reasons for there leaving (not being in the forum for a little while personally) however it seemed to be connected with russia?
I hope that this "misunderstanding" does not entice any more people to leave as we should be able to come to an amicable solution regarding diplomacy etc.
Best wishes to all of you malice to none!!
Kind Regards
Blair
Hello,
Everyone...
I was rather saddened to hear that both Brasidas and LM had left the game?
I wish both these players the very best luck with anything they may do in the future!! have fun on any future games that you may have.
It is saddening that we lose to valuable players from our little community however as said often "the empire strikes back" I don't believe it will be very difficult to replace them (sorry guys!!) as I am aware due to my marketing experience that a significant number of people are purchasing the game and I believe that they will come looking of online fun!!
Hopefully we can find replacements soon, or entice them back to the game...
I know not the reasons for there leaving (not being in the forum for a little while personally) however it seemed to be connected with russia?
I hope that this "misunderstanding" does not entice any more people to leave as we should be able to come to an amicable solution regarding diplomacy etc.
Best wishes to all of you malice to none!!
Kind Regards
Blair
OK, we should leave the arguing behind us now. Every player not having fun in this game is of course free to quit and we have to let them go. But how will we continue now? I really would like to see us getting replacements to play as UK and France, or maybe USA, but I am ready to continue with just 4 of us.