Another important difference is that I can aim with a modern bow rather long if needed. You cant do that with a Longbow, you have to release the arrow fast.
Try less.
While their trajectory might be 'flat' when compared to the plunging fire of a longbow, all but the most powerful crossbows would have to use a ballistic curve to get their load beyond a hundred meters.
Crossbows actually suck for indirect fire, they lose velocity really fast and the bolt just falls from the sky.A few hundred meters is the effective range of a medieval/middle ages military engagement. Muskets have a practical range of 50 meters when aimed at an individual target, and 100 - 150 meters when aimed at a mass (i.e. a building or large group of people) This is quite comparable to the range in which a crossbow can be used for direct fire. Longbows are great for indirect fire, but not so good for direct fire.
Loving the discussion. Here's a couple of things I've been wondering about:
1) How does the kinetic energy / power of these medieval longbows compare to the super-exotic, high-tech, fancy, pully-assisted composite bows of modern times?
2) If you have a modern man, who's a competitive bodybuilder... capable of barbell rowing 400 lbs (for reps), and rear lateral raises* w/ 80+ lb dumbbells (slow, perfect form, 8-10 reps)... AND give him a longbow. Just how much damage could he do?
And yes, I'm actually describing myself (have pics to back it up)... I have superhuman strength, particularly in my back & shoulders. Just wondering how awesome I would've been, as a longbowman. I keep reading these reports of weaklings w/ warped skeletons (AKA chronic structural imbalances -- rookie mistakes). What if someone had actually trained properly, and preferably trained to use both arms (to balance out the muscular development), not to mention trained their entire body to be proportionally strong?
So I.E., if I were going into a modern version of the Thunderdome, and I HAD to choose archery weapons (from any era), would I be better off going w/ modern weapons, or the good ol' fashioned, manly longbow? -Of course I'll need training, yes -- I realize that. And -for this scenario- forget about the accuracy component (I assume modern bows are far more accurate), I'm only concerned w/ pure force & raw penetration power -- feel so dirty saying that.
*what is a 'rear lateral raise'? Like this, except w/ heavy weight, you lean over the bench (1 hand & 1 knee on the bench), and exercise 1 arm at a time.
FAQ:
Is he trolling? No. No, he isn't.
Crossbows actually suck for indirect fire, they lose velocity really fast and the bolt just falls from the sky.
...and, in contrast to arrows, the bolts are not heavy enough to do much at terminal velocity.Crossbows actually suck for indirect fire, they lose velocity really fast and the bolt just falls from the sky.
Little.So if... IF... you can do the type of lifts I mentioned, surely one has the potential to be a fantastic longbowman? So if I cloned myself (x 10,000), and went back in time... and we all had several MONTHS to train w/ the longbow... what difference would it have made, VS. typical regiments of the time? Tremendous range? Unparalleled armor penetration power? Unstoppable force on any battlefield? OR... "Just about 12% increase in efficiency... no big deal, really. Not worth writing home about. Nothing to see here."
...and, in contrast to arrows, the bolts are not heavy enough to do much at terminal velocity.
Little.
Most penetration came from terminal velocity, i.e. the arrows were shot in a parabolic arc and most of the damage came from acceleration by gravity.
If they got you special bows you might be able to get a few meters more out of them... but ultimatly you and your guys probably would not be worth the extra effort
Or just let him swing a mace or warhammer. He seems to have the physique to crumble someone's plate armour with it.Jesus if you are that strong just grab a balista and fire it from the shoulder.
Archery needs a right muscle set, not just raw strenght, not to mention years of training.
Yes thats where raw strenght is helpfull. Kinetic energy transfer and all that.Or just let him swing a mace or warhammer. He seems to have the physique to crumble someone's plate armour with it.
Yes thats where raw strenght is helpfull. Kinetic energy transfer and all that.
No reason it couldn't be.what about that legend of the super-Viking w/ his giant axe, that killed 40 Englishmen @ the Battle of Stamford Bridge? He supposedly held off the entire army, single-handedly. Only a cheap shot (hitting him w/ spear from under the bridge) finally took him out. True story, or no??
...I'm never going to be an archer, anyway.
Well, you seem to be a real life Jesse Ventura. Next you'll be telling us that you ain't got time to bleed.Reminds me of the time I was trying to argue that you CAN, in fact, shoot an M2 (.50 cal MG) "from the hip". (I know, b/c I've done it)
Well since we are comparing X bows and bows it should be worth to note that X Bows can be very effective used for attacking.
You cant aim for long with a bow, especially with a long bow. With a X Bow you can wait for the right moment to fire or walk and shoot.
You can fire it even prone or over the shoulder of someone.
About that volley thing.
Late mediaval X bows been usually deployed in small groups unlike archers. Those groups can fire and withdraw behind other groups. A bit like the arquebus been used. They been also heavily armored and could participate in melee if needed.
This is however also different by culture, in Italy often the nobles used the X bows and had spares, pavise shields, reloaders and henchmen to protect them.