Werewolf CCIII: A Return to the Basics

[Audren]

This is also my third wolf role in my sixth game. I find this fairly weird, but I guess there is a decent statistical likelihood of it happening. You'd think I'd be a better wolf by now, but nope.

In your sixth Big game, or games in general. Cause if it's your sixth Big game you've been a baddie as many times as I have in the past year.

So he just contacted a random player?

I guess. To be fair, he claimed it was a Seerish scan that caught him; I didn't know he was Van Helsing until after he died.

 

[madchemist]

Regarding the doctor thing, I believe that the most logical solution is that the doctor doesn't know he has somebody to save because his "patient" never died. Just an ordinary no-hunt night is the only thing that really makes sense.

The other alternative is to get rid of the doctor role altogether, as it's massively unbalancing if it ever manages to work. The double-whammy of preventing a hunt and losing a wolf is a huge swing, especially in a game this size.

 

[Tornadoli]

Torn says he's got it. And I do hope he hurries, so that we don't hear his complaints about how long it takes for a new game to be posted.

I will post the thread in a couple of hours.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Well, ok. Here is something you might find amusing. We were having some hygge here into the late hours. We were outside sitting in a lawn with some family/friends and lanterns. A cousin of mine who lives in another building here has recently broke up with her boyfriend on the basis that he does not believe in evolution. Their pillow talk at some point the last 2 weeks or so turned to evolution and this guy made a comment along of the lines of "Whatever, it's not true." It looks like this comment was not received favorably, and he was insulted and made to leave immediately.

The rest of us (me, my wife, and a friend of mine) couldn't decide if this was more coldhearted or funny.

Sounds like the best option, since he sounds like a religious nutter.

I guess. To be fair, he claimed it was a Seerish scan that caught him; I didn't know he was Van Helsing until after he died.

Seriously? @Rovsea such claims stinks of seer contacting unknown or baddie contacting patsy. If you have an xly power and catch a baddie then you out yourself.

The double-whammy of preventing a hunt and losing a wolf is a huge swing, especially in a game this size.

On the other hand it might well fail.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

It's also somewhat bad that none of the baddies were killed due to analysis. They all died via hunts, outings, or shots.

 

[Tornadoli]

Werewolf CCIV: The Experiment
​

You wake up with the biggest headache you have ever had. What is this place? You blink and blink, and slowly the picture becomes clear: you are in a telephone box. Or is it? You stand up and look around you. No, it isn't a telephone box, it's just a box, maybe as big as a closet. No door, of course. You feel the panic rising in you, which isn't soothed in any way when you suddenly hear a cackling laughter coming from somewhere.
A large screen flickers on in front of you. You can see a bad rendering of a round table with even worse renderings of human faces around it. You hear the laughter again, then an old voice coming from somewhere:

"Welcome, welcome! I hope you are comfortable. Welcome to my little... experiment. I have gathered you here to play a little... game. A game of... werewolf. I know you are well aware of it. The boxes you are in have one exit only: the bottom. Should you get lynched, hunted or die in any other way, it will open. The fishes will have a great dinner, yum, yum. Should you survive until the end, I will let you go. Oh, and don't think you can just refuse to participate... should you not choose someone to lynch or hunt, I will choose one of you to die anyway! Let the game... begin!"

LINK: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/werewolf-cciv-the-experiment.937743/

 

[al-Aziz]

Speaking of, I'm a woman who used her "feels" to shoot a player in this game. I think they ended up being an unattached cultist.

Wow, I wonder who this person was. I'd never be so blatant about something like that.

I thought you did just because of, you know... catfight?

Wow, rude.

 

[npstr]

Is losing fair and square the proper occasion to vent your romantic frustrations?

Your priviledged assumption I might be romantically interested in women offends me.

You know, npster, when your opponent is standing on a giant pile of utility and you just lost, it's probably not a good time to go around calling them the illogical loser.

Stop putting words in my mouth, puttings things in other peoples mouths is not ok. If you just want to flame can you please make it classy?

If I wanted to bitch about the game I would have bitched about the GM handling the case inconsistently. Or I might have even refused to play like other good sports I've seen here. I'm just baffled by someone insisting on his incompetence to be right. But it's k, just human nature, ppl work like that, one makes a decision and then works hard to justify it afterwards and keep one in the illusion it was a good idea.

Oh, hi. That must me. Like all women,

you are just egocentrical*. It's actually IG on the top of that list. You just never learned how to lead a productive discussion, that's does not qualify you for making it on my WW shitlist. Sorry, so far my shitlist seems to be very male-exclusive. Now is this a good thing or a bad one?

*nothing compared to me. I'd love to meet a person who is more egocentrical than myself.**

**I think there's a joke hidden somewhere here. Probably something sexist or exclusionist or whatever adjective is currently en vogue in the victim playing scene.

I'm just so emotional and illogical. You might even call me hysterical. I'm one of those people who never listens to logic or reason or rationality; I just dismiss people's opinions out of hand because of my feminine emotions.

The first being me, of course, because I'm just so very incompetent. After all, I'm too emotional.

Because women are so emotional, they'll never excel at difficult games that require analysis, logic, and game theory like Werewolf. It's too bad that some women rely on their intuition so much. Just like al-Aziz. She just lets her intuition and her womanly wiles run rampant over any logic that might be had!

I can tolerate some women. It's a good thing when a woman tries to stop being so emotional, but that's a rare thing these days.

Oh dear The Triggering is real. You seem to have a problem with recognizing the difference between making a generalized statement and actually applying such a statement to an individual.

At times like this, I wish we had an agree button here.

Yeah, need definitely more circlejerk in here.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

If I wanted to bitch about the game I would have bitched about the GM handling the case inconsistently.

?

 

[npstr]

?

?

Does this answer your question mark:

Turning me three hours after the deadline. I would have handled that differently, by conveniently adjusting the publicly not available protection layer order so only one thing happens, assuming the "only one thing happens" is the usual meta here, which I've had the impression of so far. Talking about this further is pointless, as mistakes or suboptimal handling of greyish situations do happen despite the hardest work one puts in, and k-59 already made a post reminding of using a public protection layer order to prevent this in the future.

Or are you confused by something else?

 

[Cliges]

Your priviledged assumption I might be romantically interested in women offends me.

You're right, given your comment, I should have assumed the contrary. Maybe.

Sorry, I guess?

 

[k-59]

Yeah, need definitely more circlejerk in here.

Feeling lonely?

 

[madchemist]

?

Does this answer your question mark:

Turning me three hours after the deadline. I would have handled that differently, by conveniently adjusting the publicly not available protection layer order so only one thing happens, assuming the "only one thing happens" is the usual meta here, which I've had the impression of so far. Talking about this further is pointless, as mistakes or suboptimal handling of greyish situations do happen despite the hardest work one puts in, and k-59 already made a post reminding of using a public protection layer order to prevent this in the future.

Or are you confused by something else?

TBH, I'm surprised he didn't get more complaints about his handling of the turn.

 

[npstr]

You're right, given your comment, I should have assumed the contrary. Maybe. Sorry, I guess?

I'll probably make a tumblr post about the glaring speciesm on the PI OT forums.

I'm into bitches:

I am trans-species and identify myself as a canis lupus.

 

[k-59]

TBH, I'm surprised he didn't get more complaints about his handling of the turn.

It would have been a lot worst if it ended up wining Napster the game, but as it is it was a non-critcal mistakes which will hopefully spur people to clean up sloppiness that has existed in the rules forever.

 

[Audren]

TBH, I'm surprised he didn't get more complaints about his handling of the turn.

I predicted a fair amount of fire as soon as I found out what happened. Honestly, I'm disappointed.

 

[aedan777]

Jacksonian's mistake was mentioned from pretty much right after the deadline. An order for protections should be clearly established, and the order that makes the most sense in my mind is-

GA-Blessed-Cursed-Doctor-Padre (left being first to take effect, right being last)

To explain: GA and Blessed prevent the hunts from happening, therefore they'd take effect before the others, which occur after the hunt. Doctor and Padre occur after the hunt target has been left in a near dead state, while cursed means the hunted player turns sides. Doctor has the patient come back to play after a day, while Padre just receives last words, so Doctor would occur before padre.

Therefore in the situation this game had, a cursed villager being hunted while protected by the doctor, the villager should've been turned, and had no need of being saved by the doctor. Had Jacksonian simply said Npstr was saved by the doctor, I'd say that's the wrong call, but it wouldn't be a mistake per se. Having doctor save him and then turn him with the curse was definitely a mistake. Multiple protections never trigger when a player is hunted, and it is near impossible for villagers to expect that. Npstr can complain that being caught by a witness is cheap or whatever, but he got in a position where it was impossible for an informed villager to suspect him, being double scanned and with no lack of a hunt that would indicate a potential cursed player, all from a rules mistake by the GM. A lucky ability catching him was the least painful way to end this.

 

[Tornadoli]

Are these protection layers really necessary? Isn't this handled by the night actions order? Doctor comes before werewolf in the night order, so a cursed player protected by the doctor shouldn't be turned. At least that's how I'd interpret the night action order.

 

[EUROO7]

Predictably, I find myself in agreement with Aedan.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

Jacksonian's mistake was mentioned from pretty much right after the deadline. An order for protections should be clearly established, and the order that makes the most sense in my mind is-

GA-Blessed-Cursed-Doctor-Padre (left being first to take effect, right being last)

To explain: GA and Blessed prevent the hunts from happening, therefore they'd take effect before the others, which occur after the hunt. Doctor and Padre occur after the hunt target has been left in a near dead state, while cursed means the hunted player turns sides. Doctor has the patient come back to play after a day, while Padre just receives last words, so Doctor would occur before padre.

Therefore in the situation this game had, a cursed villager being hunted while protected by the doctor, the villager should've been turned, and had no need of being saved by the doctor. Had Jacksonian simply said Npstr was saved by the doctor, I'd say that's the wrong call, but it wouldn't be a mistake per se. Having doctor save him and then turn him with the curse was definitely a mistake. Multiple protections never trigger when a player is hunted, and it is near impossible for villagers to expect that. Npstr can complain that being caught by a witness is cheap or whatever, but he got in a position where it was impossible for an informed villager to suspect him, being double scanned and with no lack of a hunt that would indicate a potential cursed player, all from a rules mistake by the GM. A lucky ability catching him was the least painful way to end this.

Yeah, I misinterpreted my rules, and I take responsibility for that. I didn't really anticipate a situation where the doctor saved a cursed player, it seemed so unlikely it never crossed my mind. I went with what I thought was right, and obviously this is good for future games to that others don't make the same mistake.