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We could've also had a 3 wolf + cultist pack? Or 3 wolf + sorc?
For what gain, though? Roles abs traits need to have a purpose.
Having cultists kr sorcs just because doesn't have a purpose

Purpose of cultists is to allow sorc to get in touch, as well as to allow contact between packs and possible moving to new packs, etc.

Purpose of sorc is to find priest and seer.

Maw got a sorcish scan, which he likely wouldn't if there was a sorc. Plus, having a sorc in a game this small likely would be broken as would ensure seer is got if sorc lives to midgame or such.
@Wagonlitz why were you trying a last-minute switch away from ike there?
Ike claimed brutal.
A brutal wolf would mean we lost no matter what.
Tried explaining it in the posts at rhe times but perhaps not well enough.

I've been certain of flick for a while.

Also, note, Culanns vote means that Flock is the better option for today.
She is the one ffitinf the best, and also switched ejth Ike.
Though unless Yakman switches its gonna be all moot.


Not sure when I'll get back on again, so need to commit to a vore.

Vote Flock
 
This isn't entirely correct. A pure wolf game like we have in lites means that seer scans become full-clears, which suddenly allows the JL to organize much more easily than if they had to consider the possibility of a cultist or a sorc slipping through the seer scans. There's a reason the "nearly the entire village is part of the JL" scenarios only ever really happen in lites, not bigs. Having a cultist around massively nerfs the effectiveness of the seer, even more so if there is nothing that can scan them either.
Not saying that we must have a cultist, but an unscannable cultist in return for a village spy(alxeu) doesn't seem entirely unbalanced either.
If you have cultists you need priest.
Unscannavle roles are bad.

Also, the village is almost solely traitless villagers. So far we've not really seen anything necessitating the wolves getting a major thing, which a cultist would be if jo priest, in return for our spy.

Also, bigs have curses.
That in alone is enough to prevent megs JLs, as it only takes one curse hot to fully unravel a mega JL.
 
only one player in this game has claimed that he knew a wolf had a trait.

that's wagonlitz.

the wolf turned out not to have said trait.

i think we know who should get the noose.
 
If you have cultists you need priest.
Unscannavle roles are bad.
Why?
Also, the village is almost solely traitless villagers. So far we've not really seen anything necessitating the wolves getting a major thing, which a cultist would be if jo priest, in return for our spy.
I believe we've seen a
- alderman (culan v1)
- spy (alxeu)
- seer (caillean)
- seer-scan (aedan)
- plotter (dedonus)
- blessed (randakar)

From the wolves all we've seen so far a sorc scan and a plotter.

And unconfirmed we've got
- psychic (me)
- SA (claimed by flockingbird)

This doesn't seem entirely balanced out against each other, though perhaps an unscannable cultist is indeed too much in the other direction.
Also, bigs have curses.
That in alone is enough to prevent megs JLs, as it only takes one curse hot to fully unravel a mega JL.
True.
We haven't seen any cursed player come up yet, though. If we assume randys bless is 'balanced' by a curse than this gets very scary because a curse hit would insta-win the game for the wolves. Not that we can do anything about it.
 
Anyway, yakman is stuck on wagon. If both are vills we're dead.

I'll agree that flock is probably wolf. Everyone else has something clearing for them, she's the only one with nothing really clearing going for her. The SA claim doesn't exactly clear her, an SA wolf to pick up a scanner certainly makes quite a bit of sense. Alibi voting for ike when even a blind man could see that ike was in trouble day 2 doesn't exactly clear her either.
Her last minute switch on day 5, which helped ike escape, also somewhat feels like a newbie losing their nerves when a packmate is in trouble.

This would make wagon a very unlikely cultist/sorc, since pushing for flock would lose him the game if the push actually succeeds.

Leaves me with culan and yak for the remaining wolf.
Boils down to spy report (and packmate tunneling) vs dangerous vote.
I really so no way that spy report is anything other than vill. Which would then make culann(or rather: wombat) a fairly callous wolf. Maybe he thought that the MAW case was going to take off regardless, leaving it very likely for a wolf to be dead and then just going for alibi points instead of a very risky attempt at saving packmates?
This means we're probably dead. I'll have to hope I'm wrong and yak is in fact a wolf, or yak still changes his mind.

Anyway, need to put down a vote.
VOTE FLOCKINGBIRD
 
I've never claimed knowing for certain.
You claimed Ike was cleared, when he wasn’t.
This is because a cultist/sorc cannot win the game on their own
Bear, in the game you GM’d, you gave me and Ded cultist, and when our wolves died, we turned wolf. Wagon could be wolf now.
Edit: and you have to know this; it was your game!

As to Day 5, bear and Culann were already on Dedonus when I voted Ike [589] and put him in the lead. That’s not the act of a packmate, folks. Then Ike pretended to self-sacrifice by voting me [594]. I asked if Ike could be a villager. People had told me before that I was tunneling. Culann, you were around, but you didn’t answer even though you had noted we didn’t have much time. The only answer I got was Wagon switching off me and voting Dedonus [600]. So I switched. And Ike switched. And Dedonus plot-voted Ike. My switch didn’t make any difference. So why am I suspicious when bear, Culann, and Wagon were already voting him before me, and I switched because I thought you could be right and I could be wrong about him?

Run me up and the game ends today.
 
The spy report on yakman, combined with his hard-tunneling of a wolf, means he is a very likely villager. I'd be shocked if he was baddie at this point.

Wagon has aedan's seer scan on him, but otherwise reads baddie.
Wait, why did we assume that cultist/sorc is impossible?
We could've also had a 3 wolf + cultist pack? Or 3 wolf + sorc?
Though we haven't seen any priest or even priestly-scan throughout the entire game. So then a cultist/sorc would've been completely unscannable. Which would be unusual, but not exactly impossible?

Let's consider some scenarios:
A) Wagon is not a baddie
In this case my assumption of yak not being a baddie leaves me with culan/flock as the last wolves

B) Wagon is a baddie
In this case wagon must be a cultist or a sorc. This leads to a somewhat funny conclusion: A baddie wagon is still a mediocre lynch. This is because a cultist/sorc cannot win the game on their own, they must be attached to a wolf. This means that even if wagon is a baddie, we'd be better off looking for the wolf to finish it today.
Now who would make sense as a packmate for a hypothetical baddie wagon?
- Yesterdays push against flock would make her an incredibly bad fit for wagon's packmate: All that wagon would achieve was killing a potentially hidden packmate to save a blatantly-out-in-the-open packmate. Todays push against flock just doubles down on this: If we have a wagon/flock pack, then wagon would just outright lose the game if flock dies, so trying to lynch her seems rather strange.
- Then the assumption of yak not being wolf lands me on culann.

So then for both scenarios Culann would be a good lynch.
Then if wagon is a baddie, lynching culann would win the game outright
If wagon is not a baddie, then we would get confirmation of this fact by virtue of the game not ending, at which point I think flockingbird would the target for tomorrow.
I only need two assumptions for this logic: Yakman is not a wolf, and flock/wagon do not work as packmates. I suppose yakman and flock/wagon would also need the assumption that I myself am not a wolf for this logic to add up.

But then Culann's day 2 vote throws a spanner in this logic: Looking in more detail, he was voting in a situation where it was ike on 2, and MAW/yak/dedonus on 1. Then pushing MAW up to 2 set up a second wolf as a major candidate. Such an action makes it extremely likely packmate is going to die. With ike being a wolf, this was more dangerous than I gave it credit for earlier. But then I'm stuck with 3 seemingly cleared people + flock, and there's still 2 baddies left, so clearly something in this logic is wrong.
So either:
- I'm misjudging the yakman spy report
- Wagon is a cultist/sorc without any scans that can pick him up.
- culann (or rather: wombat) decided that a dead packmate was an acceptable risk to take on day 2 to get some alibi points.

If I am wrong on wagon, then I'd immediately have a second logic-error as well: Either flock/wagon are packmates after all or I'd have to also be wrong about yak/culann.

Yakman has been tunneling ike all game long and then jumped to wagon. Could it be? Just going through the entire game only ever voting packmates? Maybe he voted ike day 2 thinking ike was going to be dead, but then got disrupted by an outing which could make him look bad, so he decided to just keep going till ike was dead?

Wait.
Yesterday we had two people breaking away from voting ike-the-self-professed-wolf. Yakman and Wagon. Wolves trying to cast doubt and hoping to get a villager to break ranks? No, yakman was voting for wagon there, so those two together don't make sense. But maybe one of them? @Wagonlitz why were you trying a last-minute switch away from ike there? @Yakman Why did you vote for wagon yesterday when ike was finally getting lynched?
b/c the lynch was going to happen anyway.

@Emperor Ike was playing bad on Day 0. village is VERY SUPID for not voting him earlier.

@Wagonlitz claiming to know werewolf traits? wha?

game is too small for the villagers to work a TIE, but man, if ever there was a day...
 
I think Wagon’s most likely a cultist turned wolf, though I am not certain. People told me I was tunneling on Ike, and my suspicions turned out to be correct (it’s sloppy analysis to think I’m in his pack). Wagon’s long been my #2 suspect, right after Ike. Distrusting myself and trusting more experienced players has been a mistake in the 2 games I played.

VOTE WAGONLITZ
 
It seems we don't have consensus, and I have the unfortunate position of choosing between two candidates. Looking over the traits and seeing that only a wolf has a sorc scan and there was not a single priest scan nor has anyone claimed the priest role. It is hard for me to imagine a game setup that includes a cultist when there is no way for the goodies to scan for them. Aedan a confirmed villager claimed that he scanned Wagon and came back a villager, there is no reason to believe that the claim is a lie.

Vote Flockingbird
 
Bear, in the game you GM’d, you gave me and Ded cultist, and when our wolves died, we turned wolf. Wagon could be wolf now.
Edit: and you have to know this; it was your game!

think Wagon’s most likely a cultist turned wolf
That's a different type of cultist to what we use this game.
Note that many roles have lots of variants a result of 20 years of WW on these fora.

The version that turns into wolf when other wolves are dead is pretty rare, though, these days and the zealot has more or less taken over thar variant.
 
That's a different type of cultist to what we use this game.
Note that many roles have lots of variants a result of 20 years of WW on these fora.

The version that turns into wolf when other wolves are dead is pretty rare, though, these days and the zealot has more or less taken over thar variant.
Then do you know who the wolves are? If I were a wolf I would have given up, but I’d like the village to win.
 
Then do you know who the wolves are? If I were a wolf I would have given up, but I’d like the village to win.
I don't know exactly, no.
You're one and rhen either bear or Culann is one. Atm I think I'd pick bear over culann due to that vote on Maw.

Wolves generally don't give up unless it's clear everybody else is scanned and in JL, and even then not necessarily.
 
I don't know exactly, no.
You're one and rhen either bear or Culann is one. Atm I think I'd pick bear over culann due to that vote on Maw.

Wolves generally don't give up unless it's clear everybody else is scanned and in JL, and even then not necessarily.
I gave myself up in my other game. /shrug

Bear was the 1st on MAW; TW/Culann the 2nd. Could Yak be a wolf?

It won’t matter; the vill is dead when you lynch me.
 
I gave myself up in my other game. /shrug

Bear was the 1st on MAW; TW/Culann the 2nd. Could Yak be a wolf?

It won’t matter; the vill is dead when you lynch me.
Oh right, bear voted Maw too.
Not sure on which of them then.

Generally people don't give up unless it's clear there's absolutely no chance.

Yak could be a wolf, I guess, but then the spy report really doesn't make much sense.
 
Final Day 1 Votecount
Ironhide: 3
alxeu
[82]
CulannV2(wombat) [
97]
Cymsdale [77 Yak -> 90 alxeu -> 104 IH]

HistoryDude: 3
Wagonlitz [75 Yak ->132]
Dedonus [79 Cymsdale -> 111 marty ->138]
Emperor Ike [92 Yak -> 119 marty -> 140]

MAWofdoom: 2
Arkasas [84]
Caillean [102]

Emperor Ike: 2
randakar [81 aedan -> 101]
yakman [
99 IH -> 130]

Marty: 1
MAWofdoom [83 Cymsdale -> 109 IH -> 117 marty]

Alxeu: 1
aedan
[80]

Aedan: 1
beartjah [86]

Wagonlitz: 1
Flockingbird [
85 Arky -> 127]

Not Voted: 3

Ironhide G1
HistoryDude
marty99

Day 2 just before outing (last vote at post #225)
Emperor Ike: 4
Flockingbird [177]
Yakman [178]
Caillean [215]
alxeu[222]

Cymsdale: 3
Marty [188]
MAWofdoom [192]
Arkasas [198]

MAWofdoom: 3
Beartjah [175]
CulannV2(wombat) [183]
Wagonlitz [186]

Yakman: 1
Dedonus [181]

Wagonlitz: 1
Aedan [182]

CulannV2(wombat): 1
Cymsdale [190]

Dedonus: 1
randakar [cymsdale 211 -> yakman 224 -> 225]

Not Voted: 1
Emperor Ike

Final Day 2 Votecount
MAWofdoom: 11
Beartjah [175]
CulannV2(wombat) [
183]
Wagonlitz [
186]
alxeu [222 Ike -> 228]
Cymsdale [190 Team Wombat -> 229]
Flockingbird [177
Ike -> 231]
Caillean [215 Ike -> 232]
randakar [211 Cymsdale -> 224 Yak -> 225 Dedonus -> 234]
Dedonus [181 Yak -> 237]
Emperor Ike [239]
Arkasas [198 Cymsdale -> 241]

Cymsdale: 2
Marty [188]
MAWofdoom [192]

Emperor Ike: 1
Yakman [178]

Wagonlitz: 1

Aedan [182]

Final Day 3 Votecount
Arkasas: 4
Randakar
[289 Dedonus -> 302 Ike -> 302 Wagonlitz -> 303 Ike -> 328 Wagonlitz -> 336 Flockingbird -> 344 beartjah -> 362]
Aedan [287 Dedonus -> 368]
alxeu [314 randy -> 354 Ike -> 371]
Emperor Ike [291 Dedonus -> unvote 318 -> 382]

Randakar: 3
Wagonlitz [
280]
beartjah [
292]
Cymsdale [282 randy -> 295 Wagon -> 326]

Emperor Ike: 2
Yakman [284]
Flockingbird [
309 randy -> 325]

Wagonlitz: 1

Marty [286]

Marty: 1
Culannv2 [298]

beartjah: 1

Arkasas [321]

Flockingbird: 1

Dedonus [330]

Final Day 4 Vote Count
Randakar: 6
Cymsdale [425]
Emperor Ike [461]
marty [469]
Flockingbird [473]
Dedonus [474]
aedan [480]

Flockingbird: 4
Culann [429]
beartjah [437]
Randakar [411 cymsdale -> 454]
Wagonlitz [399 randy -> 486]

Emperor Ike: 1
Yakman [398]

Final Day 5 Votecount
Dedonus: 7
Aedan
[531]
beartjah [535]
Culann [549]
Wagonlitz [512 Flockingbird -> 600]
Flockingbird [
589 Ike -> 603]
Emperor Ike [594 Flockingbird -> 604]
Dedonus [545 Ike -> plotter]

Emperor Ike: 2
Marty [537]
Yakman [554]

Are the forums being fun for anyone else?=

Day 6
Emperor Ike: 5
Wagonlitz [620]
marty [635]
beartjah [638]
Culann 2.0 [648]
Flockingbird [651]

Wagonlitz: 1
Yakman [
643 Ike -> 663]

Flockingbird: 1

Emperor Ike [660 Ike -> plotter]

Why do the spoiler tags for day 6 not work?

Here is your culprit. Somehow the color code got imbedded inside the spoiler tag.

Code:
[SPOILER[COLOR=rgb(204, 204, 204)]][/COLOR]
 
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Reactions:
Oh right, bear voted Maw too.
Not sure on which of them then.

Generally people don't give up unless it's clear there's absolutely no chance.

Yak could be a wolf, I guess, but then the spy report really doesn't make much sense.
I’ll stay on you, as I think it’s the strongest case, though I am not sure. I’d prefer to go down voting a wolf. I think you’ve harmed the village more than anyone left, and would have harmed us more if you had had your way with ties. If you’re not a rare cultist turned wolf, I apologize. :) You—as villager—will die because of your foolishness over me, though.

Edit: because the wolves will be at parity.