Werewolf Lite CCCXCVI: The Joy of Map Painting

[madchemist]

I would also be curious to hear how the balance of the game was. Since this is a new setup, I wasn't sure whether it would be balanced. Coming out of it, I think it mostly is, perhaps slightly leaning in favour of the village, but I think the extra intrigue was a good tradeoff for it.

Heavily in favor of the village. Things went about as well for the wolves as they could have gone in the early game (one inquisitor N0 hunted, one lynched), but they really needed to get all three in order to have a chance in the endgame, or needed a Stalingrad.

Just to compare to a standard Lite, you had:

3 goodies who should automatically never have been lynched (compared to 1 in a normal Lite).
An average of 1.5 scans per night (compared to 1). (Obviously this decreases with time as inquisitors get hunted, but still, it's substantial).
All scans returning villager results (all scans returning results from the same team can lead to a rapid steamrolling by the village).

This is a lot.

Yes, they're a bit uncoordinated, and there are ways for the wolves to game the system a bit, but I think the wolves have to be extraordinarily fortunate (or the village extraordinarily incompetent) for the wolves to win in this setup. I'd guess at least 90-10 in favor of the village, maybe even more lopsided, if it was played out.

Drop it to two inquisitors and it might be more reasonable, though I still am a bit skeptical. It's a nice idea, but I think it has some issues in practice.

 

[JCan]

I liked it. It worked out well in this game and I think that Jeray made the best out of his fake claim.
Yeah, that snipe sunk us down. I just wanted it to be a sweep too much.
I enjoyed this.

I agree, it was fun. Even for me subbing in.
I was annoyed about the snipe at the time, but I've cooled off a bit and am willing to accept equal blame now

 

[SPAMbuca]

Indeed. Jeray moved himself straight into the lock by hunting Audren. I'm aware why he felt Audren was a good target (Audren had access to all those PMs and jeray's inq claim), but changing the hunt from SPAM to Audren meant that he went from a possibility of win to a certain loss. And there was a chance that people wuldn't have believed Audren claiming that jeray had claimed inq.

Whereas not hunting SPAM meant there'd be 2 goodies alive which is certain loss---i.e. the lock.

Firstly please call it the village and villagers instead of the town and townies. Especially townies just seems really strange.

Also villager alibi votes can happen, albeit they aren't too common. It's quite situational whether they'll occur or not. Their main purpose is to have the wolves not realise that you're an important goodie/scanned. Skobie for instance voted me day 1 in a game where I was day 1 hunted as seer (had to self out to avoid getting lynched), despite being my night 0 scan).

Nitpick then that technically should have happened before the deadline.


Help derping.

Not realising that today would be the lock if he didn't hunt you, I'd presume.

Those PMs were not forged. They were real. They were just IJL and not JL PMs. That was why Landy was lynched. We knew he was inq due to him telling Alynkio who then told jeray.
I think it was good.

Some people did not have ice in their stomachs. There was a possibility of Claude possibly popping up and voting me into a TIE. Though I said I thought we should go with it. Jeray then had the idea that I would hang no matter what due to Claude, so he better get an alibi vote down. I was about to tell him not to when the fora bugged out for me and only wanted to post a reply after deadline when it was too late.

Absolutely terrible how my mates managed that snipe. I told them that they needed to come to an agreement before deadline and even then they didn't.


Also I think I actually made a genuine crovax. It's the post Tanzhang quoted.

Called them "townies" deliberately as it's not just villagers, but inquisitors/seers/whatever as well. But I suppose that's the term you all use. Good to know though.

Already wondered how they figured out the inquisitor. I assumed that if Jeray was evil, he knew Landy to be an inquisitor before he died. I just couldn't figure out how the wolves knew. So Alynkio told them... More questions...

Also, if 2 townies were on Aedan, I don't think Claude's vote would have mattered much.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Then, of course... there was the false JL, instigated by the vile wolfie Jeray.

It's called an IJL.

Also what on Earth made you think that not being able to get inq names made an IJL less likely? Because it made it easier to pull off. And I had wanted to try it ever since reading the setup. IIRC several of my mates had thought the same.

Jeray almost blew it though by wanting to add a third scan for the third day in a row.

which made me think Audren or Claude must have counter-sniped.

Why on Earth did you not check the thread...

I hunted Audren because I had a PM conversation with him and Alynkio that he could have quoted and I'd have to deny, which I thought was dicey. In hindsight I should have counter-claimed Ramius, but I didn't know how much the village trusted his Inquisitor claim at the time since it was brought up very casually.

Not dining on SPAM was a certain loss though.

I stand by my 'ABORT'. I feel as there was no clear plan, my 'ABORT' was sensible.

No, your abort was stupid. As I said then Claude might be late, but he's (usually) not snipy late.

 

[madchemist]

Also, props to Jeray for preparing a fake claim. Good to see someone with the guts to try that.

 

[JCan]

No, your abort was stupid. As I said then Claude might be late, but he's (usually) not snipy late.

It was 19:28 and no agreement had been reached. It was not 'stupid'.

 

[SPAMbuca]

Ohh well. At least I saw some action. I was afraid I joined a dead game and just had to put down my vote. Fun first game for me after all. Yet, I prefer to be in the game from the start.

Also wolves, don't feel bad. Town made an equal amount of mistakes at least.

 

[Wagonlitz]

I just wanted it to be a sweep too much.

It's called a Stalingrad when no wolf dies.

All scans returning villager results (all scans returning results from the same team can lead to a rapid steamrolling by the village).

You can get the same person several times. For isntance Ram scanned aedan twice. But yes, there certainly is the possiblity of a village steamroll.

Called them "townies" deliberately as it's not just villagers, but inquisitors/seers/whatever as well. But I suppose that's the term you all use. Good to know though.

Then you use goodies. Though often village/villager s just used. But goodies is what covers all non baddies. Conversely baddies covers wolves, sorc, cultists, etc.

You might want to read the common terminology part of the FAQ.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...strategy-tips-and-helpful-information.908698/

Also, if 2 townies were on Aedan, I don't think Claude's vote would have mattered much.

There only was one goodie on aedan. And there were 10 man left meaning that a TIE could be forced. Claude could make a TIE if he came sniping.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Also, props to Jeray for preparing a fake claim. Good to see someone with the guts to try that.

You mean the IJL?

It was 19:28 and no agreement had been reached. It was not 'stupid'.

You said that you'd let Capage and jeray decide. Capage said go for it. And then you shortly afterwards for some reason said abort.

 

[aedan777]

I'm surprised that audren and Alynkio never questioned Jeray on why he voted A Landy on day 2 and sticking there even after A Landy got more votes and Jeray was clearly made aware that A Landy was an inquisitor.

 

[SPAMbuca]

It's called a Stalingrad when no wolf dies.

You can get the same person several times. For isntance Ram scanned aedan twice. But yes, there certainly is the possiblity of a village steamroll.

Then you use goodies. Though often village/villager s just used. But goodies is what covers all non baddies. Conversely baddies covers wolves, sorc, cultists, etc.

You might want to read the common terminology part of the FAQ.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...strategy-tips-and-helpful-information.908698/

There only was one goodie on aedan. And there were 10 man left meaning that a TIE could be forced. Claude could make a TIE if he came sniping.

You're right. For some reason I thought there were 2 on Aedan. In my last calculation, Jeray was still a villager.

I'm surprised that audren and Alynkio never questioned Jeray on why he voted A Landy on day 2 and sticking there even after A Landy got more votes and Jeray was clearly made aware that A Landy was an inquisitor.

You're right. I actually wondered why no one brought it up before.

 

[ramius3443]

I dont regret what I did, but Im still confused as to why Jeray counter sniped his own pack :?


Good job Spam! You the true hero of the village!

 

[JCan]

You said that you'd let Capage and jeray decide. Capage said go for it. And then you shortly afterwards for some reason said abort.

Yes I said it was their decision, and it came to 19:28 with no decision made.
I took charge, but Capage ignored it or didn't see it.

You didn't help matters by crovaxing and garnering more votes!

 

[SPAMbuca]

@Wagonlitz I feel like Jeray had to hunt Ramius. We were both confirmed in case Jeray didn't kill us, but Ramius would have had a 50% shot at confirming either a villager or to reveal him as the wolf. In both cases, he had to deal with Ramius being his counter claim.

 

[Spockyt]

It's more than that.


I wonder what Jeray was thinking when he saved Aedan and lynched Wagon.

I also wonder what made him hunt Audren.


From town side, I'm mostly interested in why Landy didn't vote vote Spock to save himself. I also wonder why Spock didn't bother to save himself. He made no effort whatsoever.

When I voted on the day I was killed, there was only two votes on me. I thought it was going to remain at that. I didn't look back at the thread till after deadline.

 

[SPAMbuca]

When I voted on the day I was killed, there was only two votes on me. I thought it was going to remain at that. I didn't look back at the thread till after deadline.

I remember seeing you online before the deadline. Can't be sure. Ohh well.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Im still confused as to why Jeray counter sniped his own pack :?

That makes us two.

Good job Spam! You the true hero of the village!

What he did was the only sensible thing to do.

Yes I said it was their decision, and it came to 19:28 with no decision made.
I took charge, but Capage ignored it or didn't see it.

You didn't help matters by crovaxing and garnering more votes!

Capage replied he wanted to do it before you said abort. So a decision was made.

I only got one vote after that and that was ramius. And that vote felt more like him voting me just because and not due to the crovax. @aedan777 do you btw consider that an actual crovax?

 

[aedan777]

I only got one vote after that and that was ramius. And that vote felt more like him voting me just because and not due to the crovax. @aedan777 do you btw consider that an actual crovax?

You mean this?

As aedan said then today is the last day.


Also lynching me would be a really poor idea. I'll lead to the village's doom!

No, pretty obviously a typo/unclear sentence. A villager under pressure might make the same mistake.

 

[Wagonlitz]

@Wagonlitz I feel like Jeray had to hunt Ramius. We were both confirmed in case Jeray didn't kill us, but Ramius would have had a 50% shot at confirming either a villager or to reveal him as the wolf. In both cases, he had to deal with Ramius being his counter claim.

How would ram ever be able to reveal jeray? Even if he got his scan there'd still be another unscanned villager. jeray would still be toast, sure, but ram's scan wouldn't reveal him.

jeray had to hunt you in my opinion and then bank on ram not hitting a scan. Hunting ram wuld make Audren reveal the IJL, whereas hunting you might make Audren get lynched without him revealing the IJL---or at least not having people believe it. Aedan felt that the village wouldn't believe Audren claiing IJL because he hadn't even hinted at being inq cleared in the days up to the last day.

Also was a bit fun to have ram write that he wanted me to win him the game when I threw the dice, since he apparently hadn't realised he had already won due to being able to TIE.

 

[Wagonlitz]

You mean this?

No, pretty obviously a typo/unclear sentence. A villager under pressure might make the same mistake.

Yep that's the one. Wasn't aware of having written I'll insteadof that'll until Tanzhang pointed it out.