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Werewolf Lite CXCIX- The Family Meeting, Part II

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So I'll tell you all how it happened from the inside.

Turn1 and 2, quite uninteresting. AOK designated the targets.

Turn 3, Randakar gets the pattern and sends AOK the message. We all go in crisis and AOK tells us he'll just go kamikaze. I strongly disagree and ask him not to, that we still got time. Too late he's done his outing. I'm all upset and tell him I won't try to defend him publicly.

But then, I see Randy making the counter-outing and realise he won't be good at arguing. So I decide to give it a shot. Then, breaking news, our infiltrated agent reveals Randy "let slip Trespoe is the seer". This is when things turned ugly for the villagers.

We go from utter desperation to uncontrollable joy. So we got the seer. Randy' PM to AOK gave us a suspected JL people to work on (Walrus we killed you because you were amongst the possible seers). But there, on a plate we got the seer and the JL handed to us.

Plan goes this way: provide the village enough data to force the lynching of Trespoe or at worst a tie (which I tried to achieve with my posts), hunt randy during the night and then steamroll the villagers thanks to the catastrophic vote history of some players (Adamus and Jonti-h).
When I got back home that day, what a delight. Trespoe dead, Randy dead (going according to plan), Reis91 auto-killed! I knew it was going to be tight after that turn because we'd still have to convince and lynch at least 2 people. Reis91 dead is what made our move easy.

Then, for the grand finale, all we had to do was lay low and get the village to lynch Jonti-h or Adamus. That was rather easy thanks to jonti-h's poor vote choices (no offense! Last game I played with you you also had a catastrophic vote record).

As I checked the vote records I knew I was a potential suspect because of my posts and votes. Dirkje was obviously a suspect as well. Sedracus was rather clean. So I decided to use fear. It was the last time the village could win after all.

Anyways, great game, great play. I still think we got lucky with that AOK outing and don't consider that a viable strategy, but still, it was delightful to see it work.
 
drxav, next time just relax. :D I know what I am doing. Under those circumstances, there was nothing else to do. I was already dead. The only question was when and how.
 
drxav said:
So I'll tell you all how it happened from the inside.

Turn1 and 2, quite uninteresting. AOK designated the targets.
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Bad idea to let him do that, especially the first hunt on the_hdk. Made him really suspect, due to AOK having sworn to punish him for disappearing in Big.
 
reis91 said:
Bad idea to let him do that, especially the first hunt on the_hdk. Made him really suspect, due to AOK having sworn to punish him for disappearing in Big.
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I thought about that. My thought process was "Killing HDK is not a good idea. That will make me suspicious. But wait...I'm AOK. I am always suspicious."

I almost never avoid a hunt simply because it will implicate me. If I want someone dead, I make him dead and deal with the consequences later. I think that is the best policy.
 
drxav said:
I know. He didn't ask for permission. He didn't ask before suicide bombing either.
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Anybody expecting me to ask permission to do anything is going to be disappointed. You will not dictate how I play. Had it been up to you, then this game would have been quite different with me getting outed and lynched without me being able to do anything productive before dying and the JL going on intact to probably win the game.

Edit: And drxav, I told you guys I was hitting HDK. You even confirmed the HDK hit by sending your own order with his name.
 
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*applause*
 
Also, enkuush said he wanted to host the next game.
 
A JL infiltrator? There was a JL infiltrator and the wolves knew trespoe was the seer? Now that knowledge would have changed the 3rd day dramatically! In retrospect I don't understand even why Randakar didn't tell the village earlier that trespoe was the seer. Seeing how he was already gonna die (either by lynch, or by hunt), it would have made sure the village at least lynched AOK immediately, preventing us from loosing the 4th day for analysis.

Also Randakar let slip to non-scanned persons who the seer was? Dear brother-in-law, I know you like to build a non-scanned "JL", and at least in this game it helped me in trusting your side of the story more than AOK's, but you really have to be very careful. If it is true that there was a wolf in that non-scanned JL, and you let slip who the seer was, you did almost more damage to the village than AOK did himself (mostly because AOK was able to do what he did because of your leaking the seer).

I feel dissatisfied with the game (but still thanks the GM for organising), because I feel this game was unwinnable for the village the moment AOK did his outing. AOK, what would you have done in my situation here? Was it really unwinnable, should I have tried harder to convince other players?

I know I am a force promotor of the idea that a JL outing should always be trusted, except in those situations where it could lead to parity. I believed that this was the case the 3rd day, since I really did believe (and actually still do, as much as AOK claims he never planned on surviving), that AOK thought he could lead the village to lynching his (non-existent) contact the 4rd day. That is why I went (against my own principles) and against AOK. Apparently even jonti now fiercely follows this doctrine.
So I am puzzled. What can a village do against these kind of kamikaze actions? What can a village do to prevent every game from now on where the a 4th wolf prepares to go down in order for the other 3 to win? Is there a defense at all?
 
rather soon after AOK.11 did the outing Randy let slip in the living room to Dirkje that the outed person is not a wolf, but in fact the seer!
And I was sitting there as GM, having to act all innocent ;)
 
Kaetje said:
rather soon after AOK.11 did the outing Randy let slip in the living room to Dirkje that the outed person is not a wolf, but in fact the seer!
And I was sitting there as GM, having to act all innocent ;)
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So the outing did occur before the wolves knowing that trespoe was the seer? And Randakar never knew the wolves knew the identity of the seer?
 
if i recall it right, AOK did his outing, accusing Trespoe to be a wolf. I don't know why he choose Trespoe. I saw it happen on the forum, stepped from the study into the living room, where Randy and Kaetje were and asked them (really innocent) what a JL outing was?

then Randy let slipped that Trespoe was the seeer, and i think an hour later i told the other wolfs.

i had a bit of a guilty feeling about telling the other wolfs because it was information I got outside of the forum. I even asked Kaetje what I should do now. She told me: Randy should not have talked about it if he was wise. You are allowed to use everything you know. But my guilty feeling disappeared when Randy put pressure on me by telephoning me (so that was also outside of the forum) later that "game"day that I really should change my vote to AOK! That's why I voted on AOK, I could not have done anything else, without being revealed as a wolf.

So yes, the outing did occur before we knew Trespoe to be the seeer. If Randy knew that we knew you should ask him. I think he had his doubts later that game-day, when he posted that he "already told someone accidentally who the seeer was, and hopes it wasn't a wolf" (not the exact words i think).
 
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


I have slept with a wolf.........................


This was my first and last game.

although it was fun.

bibi
 
AOK. 11 said:
With Randy in the JL, I was already dead. All I could do was take a few with me.
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My main flaw: Not going after people I suspect this strongly the second I suspect them. Really.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, once chance to show yourself not to be a baddie. When you didn't respond .. I knew what's what.
But thanks for the compliment :)

drxav said:
But then, I see Randy making the counter-outing and realise he won't be good at arguing. So I decide to give it a shot. Then, breaking news, our infiltrated agent reveals Randy "let slip Trespoe is the seer". This is when things turned ugly for the villagers.
Click to expand...

*cough* Yeah, I got really upset at that outing, and told dirkje my mind in the heat of the moment. I regretted it 2 seconds later :(
My real problem was that I could -not- use that argument in the village. It would just have been fodder for AOK's case.
As for "not good at arguing"? What?!?

drxav said:
We go from utter desperation to uncontrollable joy. So we got the seer. Randy' PM to AOK gave us a suspected JL people to work on (Walrus we killed you because you were amongst the possible seers). But there, on a plate we got the seer and the JL handed to us.
Click to expand...

It was silly. I knew why AOK was going after Trespoe. I just didn't understand how he got there.

drxav said:
Plan goes this way: provide the village enough data to force the lynching of Trespoe or at worst a tie (which I tried to achieve with my posts), hunt randy during the night and then steamroll the villagers thanks to the catastrophic vote history of some players (Adamus and Jonti-h).
When I got back home that day, what a delight. Trespoe dead, Randy dead (going according to plan), Reis91 auto-killed! I knew it was going to be tight after that turn because we'd still have to convince and lynch at least 2 people. Reis91 dead is what made our move easy.
Click to expand...

To be honest, this was really demoralizing. I hated it. I have fought all day to get people to understand, to use their frigging brain, and what happens? I have to convince a wolf of all people to get enough votes to get even close to lynch AOK. If only one person had listened.. Jonti. Adamus. Neither of them has any excuse. Hipp0 I at least understand - Dirkje was blocking my access to him, and even then after he makes up his mind he is the most stubborn person in the world. Arguing with him was useless.


drxav said:
Anyways, great game, great play. I still think we got lucky with that AOK outing and don't consider that a viable strategy, but still, it was delightful to see it work.
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I have learned one thing: I won't ever tell AOK anything again. Full stop.

dirkje said:
So yes, the outing did occur before we knew Trespoe to be the seeer. If Randy knew that we knew you should ask him. I think he had his doubts later that game-day, when he posted that he "already told someone accidentally who the seeer was, and hopes it wasn't a wolf" (not the exact words i think).
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Dirkje, the fact that you did not immediately vote AOK. 11 after that was what made me certain.
 
randakar said:
My real problem was that I could -not- use that argument in the village. It would just have been fodder for AOK's case.
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How? It would not. There was no reason to place one outing above the other (if both of you were villagers). It didn't matter which one of you was lynched first, since the next day the other would be lynched. I tried get people to lynch AOK first because he would have had the power to escape the noose the next day. It there was a risk trespoe (or AOK) would be the seer, the village would have lynched the non-seer-target first. (AOK already tried to get out of a outing in another game by telling people he was the seer himself, which worked). You telling the village that trespoe was the seer would have made sure AOK got lynched first, because noone would have risked lynching the seer.
randakar said:
To be honest, this was really demoralizing. I hated it. I have fought all day to get people to understand, to use their frigging brain, and what happens? I have to convince a wolf of all people to get enough votes to get even close to lynch AOK. If only one person had listened.. Jonti. Adamus. Neither of them has any excuse. Hipp0 I at least understand - Dirkje was blocking my access to him, and even then after he makes up his mind he is the most stubborn person in the world. Arguing with him was useless.
Click to expand...
Yes, this was a demoralizing, unsatifisfying game for us both. We could argue like Brugman (Dirkje will understand the term), and it never mattered in the end. For some reason AOK found a loophole which up to now managed to prevent fake JL outings, and everyone (except you and me) fell right into it. And I still don't know what we could have done to prevent it.
randakar said:
I have learned one thing: I won't ever tell AOK anything again. Full stop.
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That is a smart lesson. I also hope the other villagers and ghosts who read along learn to never trust AOK.
 
Rysz said:
How? It would not. There was no reason to place one outing above the other (if both of you were villagers). It didn't matter which one of you was lynched first, since the next day the other would be lynched. I tried get people to lynch AOK first because he would have had the power to escape the noose the next day. It there was a risk trespoe (or AOK) would be the seer, the village would have lynched the non-seer-target first. (AOK already tried to get out of a outing in another game by telling people he was the seer himself, which worked). You telling the village that trespoe was the seer would have made sure AOK got lynched first, because noone would have risked lynching the seer.
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It would have meant AOK. 11 would get to say "See! Trespoe -is- a wolf, and he has been posing as the Seer!"
I know. Hindsight is 20/20. However, the fact that an un-outed player disputed this outing should have been enough.

Rysz said:
Yes, this was a demoralizing, unsatifisfying game for us both. We could argue like Brugman (Dirkje will understand the term), and it never mattered in the end. For some reason AOK found a loophole which up to now managed to prevent fake JL outings, and everyone (except you and me) fell right into it. And I still don't know what we could have done to prevent it.
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People are not supposed to blindly follow an outing in case of an unouted player disputing the outing like this. We didn't do anything wrong - what went wrong is that jonti and adamus should have known better than this.

I can't hammer this point enough. Bloody morons.
 
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