What about this...?

[Ampoliros]

Disclaimer : I know that my post is technicaly in the wrong thread etc.
Still I did this....as I feel at home here and have as yet not ventured into the unknown realms of the other parts of this vast djungel of a forum. Please take this into account, if you´re planning to undertake firm action .

Now here goes :

I´ve been thinking a lot about EU II in the last year(s) and there is one central aspect which the game imho seriously lacks, and that is espionage/sabotage.
Imagine how funkily it would groove if you had a tool wherewitch you could destabilize a country without actually having to dow.
I´m speaking of :

- Stealing maps.
- Steaing technology.
- Locating armies, fleets etc.

- inciting revolts.
- increasing general revoltrisk or warexhaustion (through propaganda etc.)
- Killing Generals, Admirals, Kings, Queens etc
- Stealing Ships?

These are just a few thoughts on this delicate subject.
I don´t know....what do you all think? Is there a thread like this one already in the known and unknown EU II universe?

 

[unmerged(2349)]

Could work, but could also be exploited to no end.

 

[Slargos]

I´ve been thinking a lot about EU II in the last year(s) and there is one central aspect which the game imho seriously lacks, and that is espionage/sabotage.
Imagine how funkily it would groove if you had a tool wherewitch you could destabilize a country without actually having to dow.
I´m speaking of :

Bluntly speaking? No.

The game does not "lack" this kind of detail.

This is a game of strategical scope. What you're talking about would be technical in nature. Far, far outside of the scope of this game.

- Stealing maps.

It's already ridiculously easy to gain maps in this game.

Sea charts were national treasures, they were not traded willy-nilly. If you want to be able to send a spy to steal maps, why not be able to send an assassin to kill the king's heir, creating a dynastic war? FOr that level of detail, play CK.

- Steaing technology.

Technology wasn't a big secret in the period. Expertise was. You had to build an infrastructure for production of new guns and rifles and create the educated base of gunsmiths to get it. Off-hand, the only really wellkept military technology "secret" I can recall was the polish use of hollow lances. Incidentally, a tech hundreds of years old dating back to medieval times, only "forgotten" by most nations.

- Stealing Ships?

Now you're REALLY reaching. :rofl:

These are just a few thoughts on this delicate subject.
I don´t know....what do you all think? Is there a thread like this one already in the known and unknown EU II universe?

There are hundreds, no doubt.

Everyone wants more control over delicate things like assassins, spies and sabateurs.

Ask yourself, "If added, will this function enhance game-play?"

The answer to all these micro-management "missions" is a resounding "No, for the love of GOD and everything that is holy! NOOOOOooooOOOOO!" once you sit down and THINK about it.

 

[Slargos]

If I had a Krona for every hare-brained idea where the originator spouted "wouldn't it be cool if.." and the idea would merely be tedious and play-wrecking "but oh so cool!" I would be an astoundingly rich man.

How many actually agreed with the idea to play battles like in MTW?

Yeah, cool as hell. But then imagine playing through a 300 year campaign with 1000+ battles each taking maybe 2-3 hours to resolve? YES YOU WOULD GO CRAZY BUT FUCK MAN IT WOULD BE C00LL!!!111oneoneone!

 

[Fredrik82]

What Slargos said,
Some of your suggestions might work for EU3 though

 

[Ampoliros]

I really don´t believe that there would bo that much tedious micromanagement involved.

Think about it this way :

You have an option to "plant" spies in countries of your choosing (which was in fact often done in the past, an historical example of which would be the massive espionage conducted by Spain in England just before the attack in 1588).
Depending on your tech, your monarchs ability (and ministers?), your religion and your domestic settings you would have a varying chance of success.
If successfull you would then be able to order different actions to take place (as I have posted earlier) and if the stingeraction should fail you would maybe loose stability, gain badboy and the affected nation would get a temporary CB against you.
What I mean by this is to minimalize your management and basicly letting the spies do what they were generally ordered to more or less automaticly.

IMHO at least....this would spice up the game a lot, give you new tools in foreign policy, while NOT neccesarily making it that more complex.

 

[DSYoungEsq]

How could it NOT involve micro-management????

Merely attempting to accomplish the simple goal of merchant insertion into a Center of Trade in Single-play mode requires a pause, a check of the ledger, several clicks to get to the right CoT, and clicks to send. All, preferably, on the third day of each month (which one has to remember is Feb. 2 in that month). It is such a complex task that almost all MP players eschew it entirely and simply use the brute-force every few months method. If "Auto-Send" had anything like a reasonable algorithm for choosing when and where to send the merchants, we'd ALL use it.

It is a Strategy game, not a tactics game. It has grandiose sweep. And it takes damn near half-a-year to play the Grand Campaign in Multi-player as it is!!! Leave it alone, please!

 

[unmerged(6147)]

There is already a lot of diplo possibilities needing you to click on the diplo screen and then clicking on the option. How terrible can it be to
1. click on the diplo screen
2. click on the new "spy" option
3. then a submenu emerges where you can click for what it is you want him to spy for (maps, techs, armies etc)

I believe Ampo's suggestion is interesting and I would wellcome a well-thought application of it.

No doubt several oldtimers who know exactly how the game should be designed will protest, while other "oldies", like myself, who are young at heart, would cherish the moment it was implemented.

 

[Slargos]

There's a million things could be implemented that would each in and of themselves be "cool" and probably not add too much trouble in the form of micromanagement, unwieldy amount of options and trouble for the AI.

However, add enough of them and you'll have chaos. Just look at Victoria for an excellent example. Too Much Information.

Won't someone think of the AI?

 

[Ampoliros]

Indeed I can easily imagine an aditional tool in the diplomacy screen where you just click on insert on the respective nation and maybe after 1 month and success you can then choose in the Diplomatic screen between different options at hand....
...after which your little naughy cloak and dagger fan starts his business.

It seems VERY simple to me and not really difficult to integrate.

(Imagine for example a simple function of a spy : You can see all his territory (like in a RM) while he can´t see yours (if he hasn´t inserted spies himself that is ).

 

[Ampoliros]

There's a million things could be implemented that would each in and of themselves be "cool" and probably not add too much trouble in the form of micromanagement, unwieldy amount of options and trouble for the AI.

However, add enough of them and you'll have chaos. Just look at Victoria for an excellent example. Too Much Information.

Won't someone think of the AI?

I tend to focuse on the MP aspect of EU II as SP sucks anyway and the AI in a very real sense is just a dumb sheep waiting to be slaughtered .

 

[Hive]

Hmm.... no.