• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

King John

Frienemy to all
52 Badges
Mar 22, 2003
5.141
18
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
Right now, I think I get more out of the after game arguments than the game itself. They are generally more challenging and mentally stimulating, though sometimes aggravating, and often silly. I still find it fun to go to war and to plan strategy and tactics, but it's become rote. It's like a lite version of chess, with fancy graphics and sound effects. One thing I get out of it, or at least have gotten in the past, besides a headache from staring at the screen for four hours, is a minor feeling of accomplishment, as I usually do a good job; I've been playing it so long that I know all the in's and out's. After a good war, my brain releases dopamine which makes me feel good, and that can become manic after a spectacular war, where I fight off a few countries at once, or win a grand victory against a long, bitter opponent(I have to admit neither of these have happened in a long time)....But the opposite can be true after a bad session. I guess it is kind of like gambling. It can mean a quick gain or a quick loss.

There's also a sense of story to it, like I'm performing an act by going to war. Conflict, that is what makes stories worth reading, so when it boils into the game, I feel like I've livened things up, given it another plot twist, another fight scene. I suppose the reason I've traditionally gone to war often is, besides holding up a reputation, just an urge to appeal to my sense of drama. And I love being the protagonist.

I enjoy the role playing aspect of the game, and the in session dialogs. Another thing I really like is the psychological aspect, trying to figure out the mind's of the people I'm playing with, and then see if I can influence them. I don't tackle this one enough, and especially in the past I've been very impatient and lazy about this, preferring the glories of war, but I learn the most from it (along with the arguing, said above). And it's stuff that can easily come in handy in real life.

The most useless and uninteresting part of Eu2 to me is the economic aspect. Staring at the screen for four hours, just sending merchants, explorers and colonists around, those are the sessions I feel the worst after. My mind just shuts down. It is fun to see your country growing, the same way certain people enjoy nurturing plants, or children, or any number of other things, but besides the planning aspect of it, i.e. deciding how you're to run your economy- not the actual grunge work, I see it as a waste of time if not complemented by other actions. It's a necessary evil to achieve other goals. They are just numbers on a screen that I click over and over. The only real things in Eu2 are the people you play with, so interactions with those, either by war or by diplomacy are to me the only things that make the game worth the time.

Winning is not truly important to me either, just a temporary perk. If I'm winning a game, I'll typically sabotage my diplomatic position in order to get myself gangbanged. Some of you are thinking that I'm just saying that to justify bad diplomacy:p. Well, it's true! Unless, of course, I'm already in the process of being ganged, or I'm playing in a game like "Test of Skill", where reputation is on the line and it really is about winning. Other than that, the game is just a way to have fun while working a mental sweat.


What does everyone else get out of this game? What do you play it for? Love to hear viewpoints.
 
I find the economics to be one of my favorite parts. I love the colonizing and expansion overseas. Controling trade and dominating through a high powered economy and just throwing my money into further economic growth. The more money i amount the more effective my war machine can be. Wars often times leave my colonist pool full and delay growth, which i always see as lost time.

Nothing is more exciting than a good war though, more heart beats faster and nothing else can compare to the thrill of a well planned attack, and certainly nothing feels as good as being attacked and making the attacker the attacked.

The diplomacy involved in the conflict is half the fun of wars. Getting support from foreign powers or attempting to keep my opponent from getting aid is a challenge itself, and is often as important as the battles that happen on the field.

The roleplaying aspect is certainly fun. I love trying to play as historically possible, taking on the role of a Louis XIV in France, Peter in Russia, or Suly as an ottoman sultan. The glory of promoting my nation's religion over all others and attempting to bring other nations into step with my policies as a Napoleon.

To me the building of a stable and powerful economy make a game fun in the long run, and increases my ability to wage and enjoy wars of my chosing, which provides periodic excitement in the short term

plus, if you are monopolizing much of the worlds trade and reasources then you will eventually be gangbanged anyway, without having to diplomatically sabotage yourself, my way you just get to have massive amounts of money to fight it off with:)
 
Last edited:
What do i play for?

1º to become the undisputable superpower in the game
2º to annex as many countries as possible (this isnt as amusing as it was some time ago)
3º to show some people that they are not so good as they state they are or just to beat certain dirty players
4º to beat these crazy hypertechers that sit around doing nothing for ages
5º to avoid gangs as long as possible (boy this one is HARD :rofl: )

What do i enjoy the most?

1º Reaching high tech levels before anyone ever dreamed about it (ie: my previous wednesday game where i reached trade 4 as Poland before France, the richest nation at startup, reached trade 3)
2º Become the richest nation in the game, specially if my nation is one of the poorest nations at start, and one of these land locked nations (ie: poland)
3º Doing unbelievable things like reaching India with Poland or Mexico with the OE before anyone else
4º Winning battles (specially when i kill a leader or when i obliterate the enemy army completely)
5º Winning wars, cripling my foes and boosting my nation
6º Hyperteching a notch by colonizing, trading or even bashing the ai (i dont like beating the ai, but i like having cheap provinces added to my empire)

What do i hate the most?

1º Being totaly beaten on an unfair war which i have little, or no chances of wining (and obviously these unfair wars only happen with nasty gangs)
2º Loosing a kick assing leader on a random battle
3º Loosing battles against ridiculous odds, specially if i have a good leader and the enemy has none
4º Naval battles
5º High stability costs :p
 
I definetly play EU because of the sneaky interhuman-element. It´s the perfect arena to twiddle and experiment with the sentiment of people. Winning wars is nice and fine but it is the act of scheming as such that gives me most satisfaction. If I succeed in manipulating a person into a position of structural inferiority that gives me a vast sense of accomplishment. What I mean by this is to force someone into vassalisation merely through applied diplomatic manouvering and military pressure.

Of course more often than not schemes fail, especialy so in the last year (in my case). When they fail the usualy tend to backfire badly - that is where you are very much correct in that playing EU II is a lot like gambling.
There very obviously is an ingame ethiquette in EU II MP - one which I despise to the max. I mean it just sucks to have everything break down after a carefuly prepared backstab just because some dumb nation (i.e. Portugal) decides to attack you for no reason at all but some dementedly misguided code of honor. I say morality & pseudochivalry makes EU II MP static, predictable & dull.

It litteraly grinds down all motion and leads to a situation of hyperteching suckage - the only wars beeing tradewars and the only excitement being derived from the occasional outburst of anger because some sorry sod broke one´s monopoly....

Lately I´ve been playing Texas Holdem more and more. It has a lot of paralells with EU II - in fact I´ve somewhat prefered it to the game as at least in Poker people tend to be honestly socialdarwinistic...

Finaly, I agree : Economics is the least interesting part of EU by far.
 
I say morality & pseudochivalry makes EU II MP static, predictable & dull.

Only god knows how i agree with you Ampo. It is so bad to be raping the Netherlands as Sweden and then be attacked by the Ottoman Empire because they love the dutch... (looks at Absolut :p )
 
Amp and ego, surely the key to being a good diplomat is to have an understanding of the likely actions of others.

If you know that a particular player has a moral code, or simply dislikes you personally, then you should plan around such problems. After all diplomacy would be quite dull if everyone played it in exactly the same way and took the same variables into account.

Personally I often get the best feeling from siding with a little guy against a nasty aggressor in a huge war, just to gain provinces for my ally.

Also seeing a long term gambit suceed is always a pleasure, like investing in naval tech when no one else does in order to speed up my ships to get to India and China ahead of all the regular colonial powers.

Something I do dislike quite a lot is late game warfare when everyone has large/mighty forts everywhere. It just gives such an advantage to the defender that no-one starts any wars without a huge advantage in leaders/tech/allies and so stops there being many actually evenly matched wars.
 
Dr Bob said:
Amp and ego, surely the key to being a good diplomat is to have an understanding of the likely actions of others.

Agreed - that is of course a base requirement.

Dr Bob said:
If you know that a particular player has a moral code, or simply dislikes you personally, then you should plan around such problems. After all diplomacy would be quite dull if everyone played it in exactly the same way and took the same variables into account.

Well I would argue it is difficult to "plan around such problems" as there lies a fundamental problem at heart :

There is a certain Code Of Conduct the majority of this community agrees upon. This Code limits the level of betrayal most players engage in.
Total deceit is frowned upon by many, outright subterfudge the instrument of only a chosen few, imo. This leads to a certain way of which this game is played....and limits the spectrum of political actions that are shall we say mainstream. Because treachery entails such an ammount of drama & negative social backdraw it is only seldomly undertaken. I argue that if more players were less honorable and at the same time more professional about the entire affair you would have far more motion and a lot more changes in the Concert of Powers.
As it is now a lot of alliances tend to last along time and the willingness to swop allies & engage in a total reversment is low. Worse, there are those players that base their alliances primarily on the respective player and not on national interest or circumstance. So you have England allying Spain or Portugal signing a campaignlong NAP with England because "the player is such a nice guy". I have seen this ingameplaying based on outofgame dynamic far too often and it never fails to disillusion me. Now, of course you cannot completely blend out the player and focus only on the nation but you should try your best at least. Personaly, I fail to completely keep my personal sentiment out of the equation but I do manage to minimize it....
 
Last couple of years i aimed for long balanced challenging wars, which gives extreme fun. Sometimes it can happened even at sea, but usually it is land battles, because of bad eu2 naval mechanism. So last this couple of years i always ask for land country to get this fun. The most entertaining campaign for me in terms of such interesting wars per century were Gotter2 with my Austria.

Trade gives as well extreme nice feeling, when you do your work very good. Last example was when i subbed Brandenburg for two sessions in 17th century and almost tripped income for this time.

War is priority, but when you are successful in two terms, it gives more enjoyment and challenge. Taking only war in mind is usually (not always) cutting own fun.
The war comes together with economic. The separate topic of it`s importance at lowtech, when noone is rich and there is no assaults. Nice fun tactic.

Diplomacy is what people invented to get easy war :D unlike long balanced ones :rofl:
 
regarding amps latest post:

Now I´ve been away for awhile in the mp circus and even so, not the most experienced players, but one thing always strikes me:

That so many players are SO passive when for arguments sake 2 very strong nations team up.. Later on in the game u hear ppl complain that these 2 nation are too strong and the game has lost the fun..IMO the most fun games r when the strenght conditions are pretty balanced.. Early on in the games ppl tend to see only at their own regional sphere and short term goals..

A type of game I havent played but really think I would enjoy:

A game with fixed alliances. For example: 4 vs 4, where the players and the nations are ranked so that the teams and the alliances r as balanced as possible at the start. Perhaps not doable, but anyhow, the idea appeals to me. ;)
 
Tonioz said:
Last example was when i subbed Brandenburg for two sessions in 17th century and almost tripped income for this time.
To the extreme irritation of France ;).
 
-zag- said:
A game with fixed alliances. For example: 4 vs 4, where the players and the nations are ranked so that the teams and the alliances r as balanced as possible at the start. Perhaps not doable, but anyhow, the idea appeals to me. ;)
HoI is the game for you :). Seriously, its the diplomatic part of eu2 that keeps me playing, warfare and economics are just there for fluff.
 
Diplomacy is what people invented to get easy war unlike long balanced ones

Amen! I agree!
 
I play to do better than I did last time.

And maybe do something crazy like raping England with Brandenburg :p
 
There's no such thing as a balanced war :p. It exists in games like Age of Empires, Rise of Nations and Chess. In Eu2, every war is different, and one side will always have an advantage. And it's usually impossible to tell which one that is, except by who wins in the end.

However, there are two kinds of wars in Eu2. Fun wars, and whiny wars, which are polar opposites as far as I'm concerned.
 
Tonioz said:
The most entertaining campaign for me in terms of such interesting wars per century were Gotter2 with my Austria

You mean the one where you won all wars?
 
King John said:
There's no such thing as a balanced war :p. It exists in games like Age of Empires, Rise of Nations and Chess. In Eu2, every war is different, and one side will always have an advantage. And it's usually impossible to tell which one that is, except by who wins in the end.

However, there are two kinds of wars in Eu2. Fun wars, and whiny wars, which are polar opposites as far as I'm concerned.

Not even Age of Empires is balanced tbh. Try going with an all random game with random civilizations, and if your very lucky you will have the Aztecs and your enemy will have the Spaniards for example. ;)

Obviously there are no balanced wars. But there are somewhat balanced wars, unbalanced wars, and extreme unbalanced ones. And it is obvious to know who has the advantage. Suposing both players got the same skills, try to face Sweden and Gustav Adolf by 1600's with Bradenburg. The best you will have will most probably be a sick 333 leader while Sweden will be richer, and will have the kick assing G2A with 6651 stats.

You mean the one where you won all wars?

The most interesting wars are obviously the ones you win, arent they? :D
 
BurningEGO said:
But there are somewhat balanced wars, unbalanced wars, and extreme unbalanced ones.
I would actually go for the measurement John put up, with whiny-fun wars. Balance is really unneccessary when talking about wars in eu2 mp.
 
and if your very lucky you will have the Aztecs and your enemy will have the Spaniards for example.

I cant restrain myself from pointing out that in AoE2 the aztecs are quite a bit stronger than the spaniards. :)
 
Cataphract887 said:
I cant restrain myself from pointing out that in AoE2 the aztecs are quite a bit stronger than the spaniards. :)

???

Then i think we must have a 1v1 on these terms. Aztecs got no cavalry whatsoever and Spain can easily do hit-and-run tactics with Conquistadors. I cant remember ever loosing in such conditions.

Anyway that is totaly out-of-topic. Better continue such discussion via PM if you wish so.
 
Last edited:
Mulliman said:
I would actually go for the measurement John put up, with whiny-fun wars. Balance is really unneccessary when talking about wars in eu2 mp.

*Looks back at one of my first games where i was Venice*