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What if Germany liberated Poland after keeping Danzig and it's earlier boundaries?

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kettyo said:
The Reich's politics was lacking good diplomatic sense.
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You confuse the agenda of the German Diplomatic Corps with Hitler's agenda. In English the term is a "cat's paw", where the cat remains safe from harm and risks only his paw in the swipe.

Or are you suggesting Hitler was actually a reasonable fellow and just got off on the wrong foot with the West because his diplomats failed to deliver the proper message? If that is the case, then we are having two entirely different conversations.
 
Dinglehoff said:
How was Ford pushed out during the war?
I also recall reading online that Ford shut down his paper and expressed regret for being anti-Semitic later, which I thought at the time must be post-war social maneuvering.

The USSR wouldn't be considered subverted also?

I haven't heard that he adored America anywhere besides here; but I have heard that some of their ethnic laws were pretty similar to ours at the time, and that he was impressed and frustrated by the German-Americans he encountered in the great war.
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Ford apologized for nothing. Ever. Not to his family, not to his nation, not to his world. Period.

The history of Ford Motor Company is a major essay. But I'll do a 'long story short' for my daily exercise.

Ford Motor Company starts with nothing and becomes the most recognizable corporation on the planet. Henry Ford is a royal SOB given to using brute force, spies, and blackmail to get his way under the watchful eye his chief henchman, Harry Bennet. Time passes. Ford finally makes so many enemies he is pushed out of his company by his own board. His son, Edsel Ford, takes direct control of the company. Henry treated Edsel like dogfood for his entire life, publicly humiliating him at every opportunity, setting him up to fail. But Edsel was loyal, smart, and resourceful. Edsel opened the Willow Run Bomber Plant and achieved his goal of One B-24 an HOUR! The stress killed him, the official cause of death was stomach cancer. Edsel died in (May) of 1943 in the middle of the war effort.

Henry Ford seizes control of his company in the vacuum of power and begins instituting controls that are detrimental to production and to the war department. An old employee of Ford, now head of US production under Roosevelt, arranges a bloodless coup where Henry Ford is shown the door with no questions asked.

The new head of Ford Motor Company is Henry Ford II, son of Edsel, who in May of '43 was an officer in the US Navy serving in the Pacific. Henry Ford II is dismissed from the service, and walks into the boardroom of Ford in July of '43 as its new master and remains so until the dawn of the 1980s. He helped win World War II, and he gave us the Mustang. Hoo-Rah!
 
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Andre Bolkonsky said:
Ford apologized for nothing. Ever. Not to his family, not to his nation, not to his world. Period.

The history of Ford Motor Company is a major essay. But I'll do a 'long story short' for my daily exercise.

Ford Motor Company starts with nothing and becomes the most recognizable corporation on the planet. Henry Ford is a royal SOB given to using brute force, spies, and blackmail to get his way under the watchful eye his chief henchman, Harry Bennet. Time passes. Ford finally makes so many enemies he is pushed out of his company by his own board. His son, Edsel Ford, takes direct control of the company. Henry treated Edsel like dogfood for his entire life, publicly humiliating him at every opportunity, setting him up to fail. But Edsel was loyal, smart, and resourceful. Edsel opened the Willow Run Bomber Plant and achieved his goal of One B-24 an HOUR! The stress killed him, the official cause of death was stomach cancer. Edsel died in (May) of 1943 in the middle of the war effort.

Henry Ford seizes control of his company in the vacuum of power and begins instituting controls that are detrimental to production and to the war department. An old employee of Ford, now head of US production under Roosevelt, arranges a bloodless coup where Henry Ford is shown the door with no questions asked.

The new head of Ford Motor Company is Henry Ford II, son of Edsel, who in May of '43 was an officer in the US Navy serving in the Pacific. Henry Ford II is dismissed from the service, and walks into the boardroom of Ford in July of '43 as its new master and remains so until the dawn of the 1980s. He helped win World War II, and he gave us the Mustang. Hoo-Rah!
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It sounds like he let these people that hate him have too much power over his company, and they got bribed by the government to oust him.
 
Andre Bolkonsky said:
Uh, no. That is not the takeaway from this story whatsoever.
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I asked you how he was pushed out during the war.
Your post contained the following:
Ford finally makes so many enemies he is pushed out of his company by his own board.
...
An old employee of Ford, now head of US production under Roosevelt, arranges a bloodless coup where Henry Ford is shown the door with no questions asked.
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Andre Bolkonsky said:
Or are you suggesting Hitler was actually a reasonable fellow and just got off on the wrong foot with the West because his diplomats failed to deliver the proper message? If that is the case, then we are having two entirely different conversations.
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Uhh i don't know how you've read that. Hitler had obviously no sense for diplomacy at all. But that's not a serious issue in itself. Normally he ought to have some good diplomat beside him who he trusts and respects. Politics work this way. This just wasn't the case either because good German diplomats opposed the Reich altogether or if there was any among their ranks Hitler didn't trust and respect him.
 
kettyo said:
Uhh i don't know how you've read that. Hitler had obviously no sense for diplomacy at all. But that's not a serious issue in itself. Normally he ought to have some good diplomat beside him who he trusts and respects. Politics work this way. This just wasn't the case either because good German diplomats opposed the Reich altogether or if there was any among their ranks Hitler didn't trust and respect him.
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Hitler was really good at the diplomacy... the point is that he was desperate to fabricate a war. Heck even Mussolini was a glorious conqueror who almost doubled the size of the Italian Empire. Yet Hitler made all of his gains by coercion and diplomacy. Like another Austrians whom expanded their Empire by marrying to people whom just happen to die without a legitimate heir within the next decades. It is unmanly. Real men do it like Bismarck, with blood and iron.

The only mistake was that Hitler did not believe that Poland is that important, that an actual world war would broke out because of it.
 
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Hitler understood German and French public opinion pretty well, and had a surprisingly good idea of how far he could push, and when to stop. He misjudged the English, and was taken by surprise when the UK declared war over Hitler's little romp in Poland. The problem was not Hitler's grasp of politics, it was his severely limited and badly outdated understanding of warfare, as viewed from the perspective of a Corporal in WWI. As Germany began to suffer its first defeats, he fell back increasingly on those obsolete concepts, resulting in further failures on the strategic level.
 
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Kovax said:
The problem was not Hitler's grasp of politics, it was his severely limited and badly outdated understanding of warfare
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... as well as limited economic knowledge.

But really not sensing that with betraying Munich in a few months he shuts the door on himself is a major political/diplomatical fiasco.
 
Something I read somewhere but cannot remember who it was:
After Rhineland, Austria and Sudetenland, Hitler thought he had discovered the allied though-process: they would bluster and make a show, but ultimately acquiesce to his next expansion. In fact, Hitler had not discovered the allied though process, he had altered it. At first, he succeeded in part because on the allied's side (at least the British), there was a feeling that Germany had been treated too harshly at Versailles and that she had legitimated grievances. With Hiter's reckless expansion, it became clear that he wasn't out to settle legitimate grievances but to ruthlessly bring forth German domination of the continent. After liquidating Czechoslovakia, the allies went into full containment mode, guaranteeing war in case of any further German expansion.
 
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Dinglehoff said:
Your reply didn't really even address the question, so I inferred that from what I quoted back to you.
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You asked how was Ford removed during the war, I answered in some detail. You did not understand the answer. C'est la vie.
 
Andre Bolkonsky said:
But Stalin was so kind in his treatment of Poland.
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Yes, indeed... Killed more than Hitler till the Barbarossa commenced, and deported the rest into some frozen shitholes deep in the USSR.
 
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