What People Don't Understand? Tips & Tricks

[Poopfaust]

Gliomarto -- So two stacks of 30 in the same province would suffer the same attrition as one 60 stack? WOW, is that correct?

Or is it that if you have a 60 stack, you suffer 5% attrition on the 55k men (60-55) and with two thirty stacks, you would only suffer attrition on 30K men [(30-15)+(30-15)]. If this math is correct, then the smaller stacks would be more beneficial than your larger DOOM stacks.

And to follow on with your information, only stacked less that 15 would NOT suffer attrition?

 

[Mus]

Soo, after playing abit with stacks sizes, I want to ask this: why people advice to use 30k stacks? Most non-city provinces have supply limit of no more than 7.5k, being controlled doubles it to 15k, but 30k stacks would still suffer the same 5% attrition of bigger doomstacks. And those little 30k stacks are so tasty when my 60k-stacks (my favourite size for big ones, as they still don't bump into combat width limit by then, while little enough for flexibility) jump upon them.

Hate to state the obvious, but 5% attrition on the number of men over the limit on a 30k stack in a uncontrolled province with 7.5k limit is way less lost manpower than 5% on a army of 60k, 1,125 vs 2625. In your example of the supply being doubled in the province to 15k for being controlled by the side with the 30k stacks two 30k stacks are only taking 750 each prior to joining forces with march to the sound of guns while the 60k stack is taking 2250 prior to attacking and will take more once it enters the new province that is controlled by the 30k stack (2625). Look carefully at those numbers, 750 vs 2250. That means that 3 30k formations on 3 similar 15k controlled provinces would take EXACTLY the same amount as a single 60k stack in a similar situation, yet will support each other with march of the guns and could end up with 90k troops against 60k very quickly. The more troops involved the better the math gets for the smaller stacks, assuming the player can manage them properly and doesn't get overwhelmed.

Larger formations are only good on your own territory or in cases where you don't have enough quality leadership to properly lead a larger number of smaller formations. Smaller formations are good for countries like France and GB.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Don't forget the attrition weight multiplier. In mountains and desert there is a +200% modifier, making a 20 stack size 60 for triggering attrition (but not sure if it is the unmultiplied number that is used for actual attrition percentage since I left quickly).

 

[unmerged(281782)]

Oh, the attrition affects only troops over supply limit? Sorry, I didn't know that, was judging from all other Paradox games, having just come from CK2 where having misjudged estimation of my troops total and thus having 500 men over supply limit caused 5k to die from desert attrition.

 

[Mus]

Oh, the attrition affects only troops over supply limit? Sorry, I didn't know that, was judging from all other Paradox games, having just come from CK2 where having misjudged estimation of my troops total and thus having 500 men over supply limit caused 5k to die from desert attrition.

No, IIRC the limit always works the way I am describing. See the post above yours regarding special terrain and other modifiers that can come into play.

 

[Poopfaust]

If I was wondering if I could RESUMMARIZE the "Stack Size as it impacts attrition" questions. I believe the questions is if you are in ONE PROVINCE that has a supply limit of 15, is there a differing impact on attrition if you have either (a) a single stack of 60; or (b) two stacks of 30. I believe the answers above are that you suffer the SAME amount of attrition.

I think the question and answer became watered down and confused when someone inserted the concept of multiple provinces vs a single province. We all know that multiple provinces provide more supply than a single province.

 

[Mus]

I believe the questions is if you are in ONE PROVINCE that has a supply limit of 15, is there a differing impact on attrition if you have either (a) a single stack of 60; or (b) two stacks of 30. I believe the answers above are that you suffer the SAME amount of attrition.

Yeah you would suffer the same attrition. Thats still 60k troops in a province. The whole point of having 2 smaller formations is you can spread them out and suffer less attrition, only coming together when you are actually going to have a big battle, preferably using the idea/tactic of march towards the sound of guns. How exactly is that watered down and confused, unless you were confused by the fact that I was responding to a different person than you? I was responding in general to the notion that a 60k stack is better than 2 30k stacks, I don't think it is and gave several hypotheticals why I think that.

 

[unmerged(281782)]

No, IIRC the limit always works the way I am describing. See the post above yours regarding special terrain and other modifiers that can come into play.

I have no idea what do you mean by "always", as it is pretty easy to see in CK2, just put 31k troops in 30k-supply province and get 5% attrition drop them below supply limit at month tick.

It is harder to check exactly how does it work in MotE, with daily calculations and reinforcements, but it is pretty easy to get an approximation of which way fits better. I've put 48048 army (with effective weight of about 41k) into 20k-supply province and turned off its reinforcement. It had 5.0% attrition shown all the time. After a month it had 45860 soldiers, difference being over 2188 — certainly more than 5%*(48k-20k)=1400 it would've been were attrition calculated the way you imply. The difference between theoretic 2400 attrition the troops should've suffered I guess may be explained by expert foraging idea.

ED: Another test, to better illustrate. Clean start, no ideas or leaders affecting attrition or weight, it being equal to number of soldiers. Stack of 65424 comes into province with 40k supply limit, after a month it is stack of 61922, attrition slowly decreasing from 5.9% to 5.0% with dwindling numbers. Difference is 3502, while predicted by you method attrition casualties should be less than 6%*(65k-40k)=1500.

 

[JakobWerle]

How goes it everyone? Seeing alot of good activity and replies, any questions, and we NEED MORE TIPS!

 

[unmerged(281782)]

How goes it everyone? Seeing alot of good activity and replies, any questions, and we NEED MORE TIPS!

Badly. I meet again people trying to persuade me black is white. Forth time a day. I guess I need to limit my communications with humans.

 

[JakobWerle]

Badly. I meet again people trying to persuade me black is white. Forth time a day. I guess I need to limit my communications with humans.

They just need some more education is all!

 

[Mus]

I have no idea what do you mean by "always", as it is pretty easy to see in CK2, just put 31k troops in 30k-supply province and get 5% attrition drop them below supply limit at month tick.

In that case I have no idea what the "supply limit" is intended to abstract since theoretically up to the number of that limit are being supplied it makes no sense that they would also take 5% attrition along with those who are not.

 

[NapoleonComple]

Guard your supply lines, especially if you're landing amphibiously. Guard them, guard them twice, guard them again, guard them like your firstborn child and DON'T assault a heavily guarded city right off the boats. There's nothing quite as depressing as watching a 200k army disappear in front of the enemy guns because you're out of supply. (Except unhappy kittens of course). This will drive players of Britain to distraction when first learning, as the French just love to snip your supply lanes to the coast as you're marching towards your objective.

 

[StephenT]

In that case I have no idea what the "supply limit" is intended to abstract since theoretically up to the number of that limit are being supplied it makes no sense that they would also take 5% attrition along with those who are not.

Say a province has enough food for 30,000 men and you march 40,000 into it.

Do you think the first 30,000 will continue to eat full rations while the other 10,000 get no food at all and are left to starve? No. They'll all be put on reduced rations: hence attrition will affect all of them. Once the number of troops drops down to the level the province can actually support, they'll put rations back to full again.

(In reality, most troops lost to attrition aren't going to be starving to death: they're going to desert, or get sick because they're tired and hungry, or maybe get ambushed and killed by surly peasants as they desperately roam far from the main army scouring the countryside for food.

 

[Mus]

Say a province has enough food for 30,000 men and you march 40,000 into it.

Do you think the first 30,000 will continue to eat full rations while the other 10,000 get no food at all and are left to starve? No. They'll all be put on reduced rations: hence attrition will affect all of them. Once the number of troops drops down to the level the province can actually support, they'll put rations back to full again.

That makes sense if the army is entirely living off the land, but in MOTE there are supply trains and lines being represented as well that should be able to take up some slack. It seems a bit odd, unless its also an abstraction of a geographical inability for supplies to move in above a certain amount. Especially on a daily basis considering troops carried knapsacks with rations during the period.

Also, if a group that is slightly over the limit takes 5% attrition along with a group that is way over the limit, well that doesn't really make sense.

On another subject, does anyone know if leader traits are completely random or based on situations? Like will leaders of armies with more light infantry get entrencher and skirmished more often? More guns or cav more likely to get artillery or cav traits?

 

[unmerged(281782)]

Some of my generals with infantry only are often getting cavalryman or artillerist, don't know about chances, but if that is lowered compared to armies with actual cavalry and artillery... Doubt it.
Not to mention if there is a stack of one brigade only, but you put generals to all 4 spots, even generals leading empty flanks can get traits.

 

[apoffys]

Guard your supply lines, especially if you're landing amphibiously. Guard them, guard them twice, guard them again, guard them like your firstborn child and DON'T assault a heavily guarded city right off the boats. There's nothing quite as depressing as watching a 200k army disappear in front of the enemy guns because you're out of supply. (Except unhappy kittens of course). This will drive players of Britain to distraction when first learning, as the French just love to snip your supply lanes to the coast as you're marching towards your objective.

How exactly are you supposed to provide supplies to, for example, British troops when invading France? I was simply forced to use lots of supply trains and then bring the armies back to Britain to replenish those, there wasn't any noticeable amount of resupply from the coast. Once I'd taken a huge chunk of France there was finally some resupply, but just dominating the sea and having a few coastal provinces wasn't enough.

 

[Daztek]

is coastal artillery ok for landward fortress defence? that is, its 4.2 attack value is used like any other artillery against land targets right? so it can be dragged around as a siege train, yes?

 

[Secret Master]

is coastal artillery ok for landward fortress defence? that is, its 4.2 attack value is used like any other artillery against land targets right? so it can be dragged around as a siege train, yes?

Yes, it can be used for land battle.

But it is also flagged as garrison, so it moves really slow and doesn't do well in pitched battles outside of defending a fort.

Use multiple coastal batteries as part of a garrison and they practically immunize a fort from assault. To bad the gunners need to eat.

 

[Foxd1e]

Yes, it can be used for land battle.

But it is also flagged as garrison, so it moves really slow and doesn't do well in pitched battles outside of defending a fort.

Use multiple coastal batteries as part of a garrison and they practically immunize a fort from assault. To bad the gunners need to eat.

Secret Master your advice in Paradox games is always top-notch. We the Gamers Salute you!

That 0.10 movement speed really is killer.