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Geriander

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Sep 15, 2015
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As the thread title says, what differentiated the two parties between the period when abolition was completed and when FDR turned the Democrats into the more left-wing party on economic issues in the 1930's? I'm aware that the Republicans continued to be hated in the white South and that the Democratic party there was largely focused on segregation but what about in the rest of the country?

Did free trade / protectionism divide them?
Was one party or the other more willing to seek ties to the labour unions?
Was there a difference in foreign policy?
Was there a rural agriculture versus urban industry aspect?

In most democracies there was by this time at least a liberal/conservative divide and often a scoialist one as well but I'm having trouble telling where the Democrats and Republicans of the era would fit.
 
There were no Republicans before the 1856 election. That party grew out of a fusion of 'Know Nothings' (nativists) and anti-slavery Whigs with some Northern Democrats moving over.

The principles of the Democratic Party up to the Civil War were principally centered on loose monetary policy (no central bank), low expenditures (no fedeal spending on improvements to roads, harbors and such), no opposition to slavery and a low tariff. The Democrats also enthusiastically supported the admission of Texas as a state and the Mexican War. They were mainly in power in the Atlantic states, West and South.

The Whig party was pretty much the opposite on each issue: in favor of spending on improvements, in favor of industrialization and a tighter money policy including a central bank, in favor of higher tariffs and against the Mexican War and the admission of Texas as a state. Their power was generally in New England, the Atlantic states and in the MidWest.

Up to the Civil War the Congress was careful not to overturn the Free State/Slave State balance, but the naked power grabs in Kansas and the Dred Scott decision led to the parties falling apart around the issue of slavery. Up to that point there had been Northern and Southern wings of the Democrats and Whigs; after that the parties were more sharply divided on pro-and-anti slavery bases, though to be fair the real issue was over whether or not slavery should be expanded.


This is a vast oversimplification; I recommend reading McPherson's 'Battle Cry of Freedom' for background on the pre-war years. It's brief, well-written and entertaining.
 
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To get back to the issue of post-Civil War parties, it's important to remember that in many respects the Guilded Age parties essentially served as patronage machines, providing government jobs to supporters. So that was an important difference right there, as which party you sided with determined whether you would get tapped for, say, the customs inspector at the local port or not (with its attendant salary).

So part of this distinction lay in where the two parties drew their base of support. The Democrats (outside the South) even then tended to be more associated with the big cities and immigrants (although German Protestants tended to be a backbone of the Republican Party), while the Republicans were heavily associated with big business (especially the railroad industry) and independent farmers (partially a legacy of the Homestead Act, which had been a Republican priority since the beginning, and had been passed only because the Civil War meant that Southern Senators/Representatives were absent), and tended to use the Grand Army of the Republic (the main Union veterans association) as a strong base of support. The Republicans had support from African Americans as well, but the post-Reconstruction era saw most of those voters in the South get disenfranchised as Jim Crow took over, although they still retained support from the smaller Northern black population (and, as a reminder that patronage machines are not all bad, government jobs became an important avenue for economic advancement for African Americans in the Jim Crow period). More broadly, the 19th century Republicans had strong support for the principle of "Free Labor" (which meant anti-slavery, but also "freedom" from things like regulations and unions) and moral improvement (there was a long association between Republicans and the Temperance Movement, for instance, long before Prohibition).

The Democrats spent most of the post-Civil War period in disarray as a consequence of being associated with the Confederacy; on the national level, exactly two Democrats managed to capture the presidency between 1860 and 1932 (Cleveland and Wilson, and note that Wilson benefited from a divided Republican Party in 1912), and were an alliance of separate factions united primarily by their opposition to Republicans and by the desire for patronage, which means their platform tended to be less coherent. A Republican pastor famously characterized the Democrats in 1884 as the party of "Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion," which was unfair but not completely so. Without their solid grip (helped by patronage) in the post-Reconstruction South and in various big cities, it's entirely possible the Democrats might have ended up going the way of the Whigs, but as it stands, they managed to survive and eventually reinvent themselves.

That said, there were very real issues that were debated at the time. Initially you had Reconstruction (which saw a division between Radical Republicans, more moderate Republicans, and Democrats). You also had the issue of inflation; specifically whether to return to the gold standard or allow easier money. During the Civil War, the Union had introduced paper currency not backed by gold ("Greenbacks") to help fund the conflict. This led to minor inflation, which tended to help borrowers (as inflation makes it easier to pay off old loans), but hurt lenders (as their loans issued several years ago were less valuable when paid in current, inflated money). Needless to say, once the war was over, the more connected bankers favored getting rid of the Greenbacks, while many farmers (who tended to be in debt) wanted to promote an inflationary policy. The anti-Greenback folks (who dominated the Republican Party, which was tightly connected with big business interests, as noted above) won that round and enforced a tight money policy, even as the economy collapsed. The inflationists didn't go away however; with Greenbacks gone, they instead wanted to introduce the Silver Standard (or rather, bimetallism) as an alternative to gold. The idea was that rather than your currency being limited by the amount of gold reserves the government possessed, you'd instead have it limited by the sum of your gold and silver reserves, so you could have more money (and thus inflation). This tied in with various other Populists approaches, and became influential (William Jennings Bryan famously captured the 1896 Democratic nomination with a pro-silver platform and a speech proclaiming that "You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold").

More broadly, the late 19th century was dominated by a series of economic crises (Panics) which led to a lot of economic uncertainty and various radical ideas floating around as to how to solve those problems. In addition to inflationists, you had labor unions heating up again, various reform movements, groups forming cooperatives for self-help (such as the various Granges that groups of farmers set up to help each other out), and the like. The degree to which these trickled up to affect the two parties varied, and as noted the Republicans remained dominant on the national level.

Then comes the Progressive Era, which screws around with everyone's ideological alignments.
 
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Interrsting responses. Sounds like the parties were just coalitions of special interests without even a pretense of ideology.
 
Interrsting responses. Sounds like the parties were just coalitions of special interests without even a pretense of ideology.
they were certainly less ideological.
 
American political parties have always been ideological, but they have been more pragmatic and willing to evolve to suit circumstances. Particularly so when it comes to appropriating the popular parts of a third-party challenger. That's why they have remained only two, why no third party lasts, and why the ideologies of the Democratic and Republican parties flipped between 1856 and, say, 1920. Any popular issue that comes along gets co-opted by one or both of the main parties, so the ideology is more-or-less confined to a few campaign cycles rather than permanently fixed.


As @Rubidium points out, the US had a lot of boom-and-bust cycles (with the crashes called 'panics') from the 1800s to the big one in 1929. This was a direct consequence of money policy: Andrew Jackson's Democrats drew strength from the rural South and West, and those voters hated and distrusted banks. Jackson dissolved the Bank of the United States, which worked somewhat like our central reserve system. Anyway, the result was thousands of unregulated banks issuing paper money and unsecured loans, with a massive crash and panic every five years or so.
 
American political parties have always been ideological, but they have been more pragmatic and willing to evolve to suit circumstances. Particularly so when it comes to appropriating the popular parts of a third-party challenger. That's why they have remained only two, why no third party lasts, and why the ideologies of the Democratic and Republican parties flipped between 1856 and, say, 1920. Any popular issue that comes along gets co-opted by one or both of the main parties, so the ideology is more-or-less confined to a few campaign cycles rather than permanently fixed.


As @Rubidium points out, the US had a lot of boom-and-bust cycles (with the crashes called 'panics') from the 1800s to the big one in 1929. This was a direct consequence of money policy: Andrew Jackson's Democrats drew strength from the rural South and West, and those voters hated and distrusted banks. Jackson dissolved the Bank of the United States, which worked somewhat like our central reserve system. Anyway, the result was thousands of unregulated banks issuing paper money and unsecured loans, with a massive crash and panic every five years or so.

But what ideology would you, or the parties themselves, apply to them in theperiod around 1900? It doesn’t sound like one was particularly more liberal/conservative than the other.
 
But what ideology would you, or the parties themselves, apply to them in theperiod around 1900? It doesn’t sound like one was particularly more liberal/conservative than the other.
the republicans were friendlier to black people, were against alcohol, favored big business interests, and the gold standard. but even that was dynamic across the country and they were by no means a monolith.
 
One constant has been that Democrats have always favored immigration while Republicans (formed from the nativist Know Nothings) never have.


The biggest issues from around 1900 were Imperialism and money. Republicans were in office during the Spanish-American War and oversaw the acquisition of former Spanish colonies. Democrats, who had favored war for Texas fifty years earlier, were now against Imperialism.

Republicans (the party of big business) favored a gold standard. Gold was relatively scarce and therefore inflationary - bankers made more money over time if loans and interest had to be paid in gold. Democrats were largely the party of small business and farmers, favoring a silver standard. Silver was in abundant supply thanks to strikes in the West )Montana, Colorado, Nevada, Idaho) and thus deflationary - people with loans saved a little over time if loans and interest were paid in gold.
 
As the thread title says, what differentiated the two parties between the period when abolition was completed and when FDR turned the Democrats into the more left-wing party on economic issues in the 1930's? I'm aware that the Republicans continued to be hated in the white South and that the Democratic party there was largely focused on segregation but what about in the rest of the country?

Did free trade / protectionism divide them?
Was one party or the other more willing to seek ties to the labour unions?
Was there a difference in foreign policy?
Was there a rural agriculture versus urban industry aspect?

In most democracies there was by this time at least a liberal/conservative divide and often a scoialist one as well but I'm having trouble telling where the Democrats and Republicans of the era would fit.

Protectionism & hard money was the big divide.

Republicans were massive protectionists, Democrats were free traders.
Republicans were more urban industry, Demos were more rural agriculture.
Republicans were anti-racist & pro-immigration (cheap labor), Democrats were more racist/anti-immigration/nativist/eugenicist.
Republicans hated foreign treaties, negotiated only on basis of tit-for-tat reciprocity, Dems liked collective treaties and wanted to negotiate most-favored-nation to access foreign markets.
Republicans were also hard money (retire greenbacks, monometallist, tying dollar firmly to gold standard - the Republican exception to multilateralism), Democrats were bimetallist and wanted free coinage of silver (to lower interest rates for debt-burdened farmer borrowers, so more agrarian-oriented).
Republicans were also very much into the Supreme Court upholding Lochner (i.e. no government interference in economy), Democrats (esp. Progressive wing) wanted Lochner relaxed to allow them to set up an administrative state.
Dems were big into federal "agencies" where experts had broad range to regulate stuff (railways, public utilities, tariffs, labor of women & children), Republicans hated agencies, wanted any regulation to be only by Congressional statute.
Democrats wanted an income tax, so they could scale down tariffs. Republicans opposed income tax in order to justify continued high tariffs (revenue needed...).
 
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Protectionism & hard money was the big divide.

Republicans were massive protectionists, Democrats were free traders.
Republicans were more urban industry, Demos were more rural agriculture.
Republicans were anti-racist & pro-immigration (cheap labor), Democrats were more racist/anti-immigration/nativist/eugenicist.
Republicans hated foreign treaties, negotiated only on basis of tit-for-tat reciprocity, Dems liked collective treaties and wanted to negotiate most-favored-nation to access foreign markets.
Republicans were also hard money (retire greenbacks, monometallist, tying dollar firmly to gold standard - the Republican exception to multilateralism), Democrats were bimetallist and wanted free coinage of silver (to lower interest rates for debt-burdened farmer borrowers, so more agrarian-oriented).
Republicans were also very much into the Supreme Court upholding Lochner (i.e. no government interference in economy), Democrats (esp. Progressive wing) wanted Lochner relaxed to allow them to set up an administrative state.
Dems were big into federal "agencies" where experts had broad range to regulate stuff (railways, public utilities, tariffs, labor of women & children), Republicans hated agencies, wanted any regulation to be only by Congressional statute.
Democrats wanted an income tax, so they could scale down tariffs. Republicans opposed income tax in order to justify continued high tariffs (revenue needed...).

The one point that you seem to be differing from other posters on is the Democrats stance on immigration.

Was that a stance that shited during this period or is it a matter of Democrats supporting only certain racial groups immigrating?
 
The one point that you seem to be differing from other posters on is the Democrats stance on immigration.

Was that a stance that shited during this period or is it a matter of Democrats supporting only certain racial groups immigrating?

Overall, they are more correct - certainly for the first several decades. There was a group element, in that Irish Catholics were intimate with Democratic party machinery, and so anti-Catholic nativists filtered into Republicans. Anything that threatened more Catholic arrivals was rejected by the Dems. Thus Republicans became a natural home for nativist Anglos wanted to prevent more Catholics arriving. But Blacks are an altogether different thing for Democrats, and Dems transferred their anti-Black viciousness to Chinese exclusion.

McKinley shifted the Republicans in the late 1890s during the new immigrant wave, whereas progressives pushed the opposite way. 1896 is the kinda the bellweather for the change in course. Republicans became more sensitive to foreign-born votes (indeed, McKinley would have lost to Bryan without it), whereas Democrats pushed for immigration restrictions for labor's sake.
 
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