What would the Battletech Universe look like if designed today?

[Hypnotist]

Battletech was originally conceived in a pre-Information Age world. The common conception of land warfare in the late 1970s and early 1980s was still extremely linear-battlefield with armor being the tip of the spear and infantry as bulk forces lined up across from each other (although air superiority and ground attack had a much higher level of tactical and strategic importance IRL than BT). The designers likely had little to no idea of the cornucopia of technological advances that were literally right around the corner.

So what do you think BT would look like if designed today? Keeping in mind we are still talking about a Sci-Fi Fantsy setting. Would 'Mechs still be kings of the linear battlefields? Or would they be more like elite special operations units in a universe where asymmetrical warfare is the doctrine of the day (which is how I tend to role-play in PC BT)? Would remote-piloting drone technology be applied to Mechs? Would it still be (roughly) based on The Hundred Years Wars era? Would the Star League be based (again roughly) on the Roman Empire or a more unified fictional United Nations?

These ideas and questions have been bouncing around my head for a while. I'm curious about what everyone else thinks.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

That's a really difficult thing to comprehend when you think about it. So much of what BattleTech is, can be attributed to the place and time of it's inception. It is very much a product of it's time, the 80's. Influences from the ever growing popularity of Japanese representation of technology through robots in anime combined with the fears and uncertainty of the Cold War. BattleTech being created in any other time just wouldn't be BattleTech.

If I was going to take a wild guess on what a modern invented BattleTech might resemble, I wonder if it would have been more similar to a suit than a towering robot. Maybe something like a Titan in Titanfall or even something like the suit in Anthem. Combine this with some of the political climate of today projected into space and colonization and it might be something more similar to what we see today... maybe.

Again though, it wouldn't really be BattleTech at it's core though. BattleTech could really only exist if born in the time that it was conceived in. I'm glad too. If it was a more modern product, it would probably be another Titanfall or a play on Ironman. I like that it pulls in a lot of those older elements from the time it was created. If makes it feel fresh in some ways despite the fact that it is old, just due to it being different than everything else today.

 

[Rubidium]

The whole point of Battletech is essentially to have fighting giant robots (most of the fluff as to why mechs are better doesn't make any sense, even by Battletech standards, once you think about it for more than a couple seconds, but that's because it's needed to get to the unrealistic goal of "fighting giant robots," so the ends drive the means). So the mech will still be the king of the battlefield, because otherwise you don't have Battletech, just another generic wargame. Honestly, I'm not sure if a Battletech franchise created now from scratch would be as successful; anime (at least in America) has moved away from that genre anyway; its continued success owes a lot to that already established fandom.

That said, there absolutely would be more focus on asymmetric warfare (expect lots of stories with guerrillas taking out mechs in various ways, and having that be embedded in the rules from the very beginning).

I imagine the great houses would look very different. In particular the Draconis Combine as somewhat sinister pseudo-Japan feels very '80s to me (back before the 1990s Japanese economic collapse, when "Japan is going to take over the world" was commonly accepted wisdom), with the Capellan Commonwealth (a.k.a. "Red China in Space") not far behind. Davion and Steiner could stay fairly similar, but likely with a more cynical focus on both; expect more emphasis on the Lyran Commonwealth as a corrupt oligarchy where money is everything, and the inherent tension between the Federated Suns' self-image as defenders of liberty and the reality of being an oppressive monarchy to be emphasized more heavily. I'd expect you'd see at least one religious fanatic house of some flavor (likely an invented religion) in the modern version (both Christian conservatives in America and Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East were still fairly new on the stage, both really becoming prominent in the 1970s, unlike the good old-fashioned bogeyman of Communism), beyond just the Word of Blake. It's probably not a coincidence that the "Jihad" was introduced into Battletech post-9/11.

 

[Hypnotist]

Giant Fighting Robots would be non-negotiable or your correct, it wouldn't be BattleTech. My personal caveat for BattleMechs being the capital battlefield weapons in interstellar operations is their versatility to operate in virtually any environment or terrain. That's a big force multiplier.

Regarding the social/political aspects of BattleTech, I don't think I would make it feudalistic but more like multi-star system supernations. Think more like Earth on in interstellar scale. You'd have a Capitalist/Democratic state or two, a Monarchy or two, probably a Theocracy or at least a religion dominated state and don't forget the Communists (maybe two, one in ascension & one in decline). Sprinkle in some smaller states (i.e. Periphery States), lots of little dictatorships to beat up on or support, Third-World states to prop up or destabilize.

With modern military doctrine and my own thoughts on how it would progress, Mechs would have their greatest value as special operations assets. They have a lot in common with modern capital ships. Incredibly powerful, yes but also incredibly expensive both in production and maintenance. So much so that they are put in harms way only at the utmost end of need or to seal a victory. Mechwarriors have a lot in common with modern special forces operators; highly trained and experienced specialists using the latest equipment in covert operations where tactics and stealth can be used to mitigate the risk. None of them would use flood lights during night ops! Using lights and mediums for quick strike surgical covert ops, while heavies and assaults are as heavy cavalry and shock-and-awe.

I think air support would be much more prominent as would sabotage and guerilla warfare than currently.

 

[Amechwarrior]

You could write in the modern information age stuff fairly smoothly, sats/imagery become common and data propagation within a star system would be fast and cheap. But, interstellar information transfer could still be limited due to HPG capability rivaling BT lore or worse.

As for the combat side, I'm thinking smaller like others. More Proto-Mech size squads of elite raider forces. Write something about planetary laser defenses are really good and cheap, every planet worth its salt has enough cheap AA to low orbit capital laser batteries that air-power is not an option. Rules against orbital strikes would still in be place to prevent just roid-dropping everything from an outer belt.

This would leave invasions to be kicked off and primarily dealt with by elite ground forces. DropShips scream in from jump points and burn right in to drop, not even stopping to orbit. Some DS need to be counter-battery to let ground troops land, but this is usually done at the weakest points in a planets defenses, or outside of them if a planets surface 100% isn't occupied. This means you need few and fast, highly mobile ground units to take over critical areas such as these AA batteries.

This is where 'Mechs come in. Better mobility over harsh terrain and highly adaptable unlike fixed wheel or treaded vehicles. They need to be very elite forces with high priced gear and weapons not affordable to most planetary vehicle based garrisons. These are assault breachers on offense and Quick Reaction Forces for defense. They rely on mobility and surprise a little more than BT 'Mechs, not so much standing on the front line soaking fire endlessly. Still, this gives us a very mobile game of maneuver and flanking where legged units would have advantage over more restrained conventional vehicles and infantry.

 

[AngeliDiAvanti]

Battletech was originally conceived in a pre-Information Age world. The common conception of land warfare in the late 1970s and early 1980s was still extremely linear-battlefield with armor being the tip of the spear and infantry as bulk forces lined up across from each other (although air superiority and ground attack had a much higher level of tactical and strategic importance IRL than BT). The designers likely had little to no idea of the cornucopia of technological advances that were literally right around the corner.

So what do you think BT would look like if designed today? Keeping in mind we are still talking about a Sci-Fi Fantsy setting. Would 'Mechs still be kings of the linear battlefields? Or would they be more like elite special operations units in a universe where asymmetrical warfare is the doctrine of the day (which is how I tend to role-play in PC BT)? Would remote-piloting drone technology be applied to Mechs? Would it still be (roughly) based on The Hundred Years Wars era? Would the Star League be based (again roughly) on the Roman Empire or a more unified fictional United Nations?

These ideas and questions have been bouncing around my head for a while. I'm curious about what everyone else thinks.

1. Real-world fusion-reactors don't explode in a mushroom-cloud. If they get damaged, they blow a leak and turn off instantly and permanently.

2. We have a rough idea how to build a faster-than-light drive. Google "Alcubierre Warp-Drive". But even if we had the materials to build it, in its current design it would still be too dangerous to actually use it.

3. Military is moving fast towards Battle-Armour. The south-korean company Cyberdyne uses strength-enhancing exoskelettons in their shipyards. Russia and the US are both developing Battle-Armour, but so far it's not going anywhere.
But on the plus side, we have cybernetic implants: We have cybernetic replacement limbs, we have cybernetic replacement eyes (not very good, but better than being blind). We are currently working on machine-brain-interfaces: Helmets that you can put on and that read your mind and allow you to control a machine. The technology is advanced enough to transmit simple messages like up/down/left/right and control a robotic limb.
And we can 3D-print cloned skin to patch over wounds.

4. The russian arms-manufacturer Kalashnikov has published promo-material that they are developing a bipedal Mech, but if you look closely it becomes clear VERY fast that it's bull****.

5. About a year ago, there was a tournament where two US-Mechs and a japanese Mech faced off. (Tracks + humanoid upper body) The fight made it clear very fast that this kind of combat-vehicle has no noteworthy advanatges over other contemporary combat-vehicles.

6. Saudi-Arabia is currently developing hoverbikes (oversized quadcopter-drones that can carry a pilot) for policing their traffic. Just a few days ago, France showed off a fast and agile hover-platform that can transport a single infantryman for 12 minutes of flight.

7. The era of aircraft-carriers is over: They are too vulnerable to missiles. Similarly, IEDs have become the biggest problem of patrols. The wars of the future are not fought with few, centralized high-quality units but with a whole network of different measures.

8. The US has ship-borne rail-gun artillery, though the cadence is low. The US has military-grade lasers strong enough to damage a missile/drone/plane, but not strong enough to instantly destroy it. China is currently developing similar military-grade lasers.



The wars of the future won't be fought with Mechs. Mechs are too few in number, too fragile and too expensive.

Long-range combat will be fought with drones, lasers, rail-guns and hackers. Short-range combat will be fought with hoverbikes and Battle-Armour.

 

[AngeliDiAvanti]

Battletech was originally conceived in a pre-Information Age world. The common conception of land warfare in the late 1970s and early 1980s was still extremely linear-battlefield with armor being the tip of the spear and infantry as bulk forces lined up across from each other (although air superiority and ground attack had a much higher level of tactical and strategic importance IRL than BT). The designers likely had little to no idea of the cornucopia of technological advances that were literally right around the corner.

So what do you think BT would look like if designed today? Keeping in mind we are still talking about a Sci-Fi Fantsy setting. Would 'Mechs still be kings of the linear battlefields? Or would they be more like elite special operations units in a universe where asymmetrical warfare is the doctrine of the day (which is how I tend to role-play in PC BT)? Would remote-piloting drone technology be applied to Mechs? Would it still be (roughly) based on The Hundred Years Wars era? Would the Star League be based (again roughly) on the Roman Empire or a more unified fictional United Nations?

These ideas and questions have been bouncing around my head for a while. I'm curious about what everyone else thinks.

And a few more things about society in the Battletech-universe:

In the real-world, we are currently buried under an avalanche of conspiratorial groups: Wikileaks, Alt-Right, and all sorts of groups that can be defined by one feature: Distrust of established authority. Conspiracy-theories are born out of the desire to make a complicated world simple. Just blame some shadowy conspiracy for your problems!!!

Now image a world where mankind is spread out over hundreds of planets, with hundreds of governments, thousands of corporations, millions of media-outlets. The Inner Sphere would overflow with rumor-mongers and conspiracy-theorists
* how the Star League never existed
* how Terra isn't real
* how House Davion and House Kurita are secretly best friends and their wars are just pretend
* how Comstar is eating children
* how aliens are everywhere
* how the KF-drive was invented by Satan to steal our souls

There would be rumors everywhere, misinformation everywhere. And as a result, democratic local governments would be paralyzed and dysfunctional and be replaced with authoritarian governments, which would in turn only amplify the conspiracy-mindset and lead to the ever-present threat that some crazy weirdo will commit a terrorist attack for reasons nobody but himself can understand.

 

[Timaeus]

@AngeliDiAvanti How are these posts relevant to the topic of "What would the BattleTech Universe look like if designed today?" (well minus the conspiracies)

 

[Packrat]

The factions would be different, no doubt, but I think that other than perhaps doing away with scout units in favor of saying "a drone did it", the way things work would be pretty much the same. A lot of the inspiration for BT came from looking at real world history and using it to fluff out a rule-of-cool setting that bends over backwards to make giant robots the ultimate war machines, and that history is still there today.

Also, mech construction would be very different. I really don't see anyone today thinking that multi-ton gyroscopes and equally massive computers would fit within a futuristic setting.

 

[Hypnotist]

I really don't see anyone today thinking that multi-ton gyroscopes and equally massive computers would fit within a futuristic setting.

LOL I forgot about computers being the size of classrooms back then...

 

[AngeliDiAvanti]

@AngeliDiAvanti How are these posts relevant to the topic of "What would the BattleTech Universe look like if designed today?" (well minus the conspiracies)

As I said, the whole BT-concept of warfare doesn't make sense. Inventing BT today would mean intentionally forgetting how war works, just so we can have robots walking around. BT was invented at a time when drones and asymmetric warfare weren't a thing. Accordingly, they aren't a thing in BT.

Mechwarriors are essentially knights. Sure, you can write a story about knights, but only if we ignore all the loopholes and problems that the concept of knights brings into our story.

Plus, BT was invented in the 1980s, in a mindset driven by corporatism and monolithic geopolitical world-views. Cold War! Nato vs Soviet Union! Five Houses against each other!
Nowadays we know that this is not how geopolitics works in the information-age. If mankind spreads out over this many planets, it's simply ludicrous to think that we would go back from complicated and splintered geopolitics to block-thinking.

The Cold War between the Houses only works because the authors deliberately limit the decision-making to the dozen or so characters we know, and completely ignore that societies DO NOT automatically follow the whims of their rulers.




So, Yes, Battletech could be invented nowadays all over again, but the underlying assumptions of this scifi-universe so far away from the current zeitgeist, that it's unlikely that the new Battletech would be the same as the old Battletech.

 

[Timaeus]

As I said, the whole BT-concept of warfare doesn't make sense. Inventing BT today would mean intentionally forgetting how war works, just so we can have robots walking around. BT was invented at a time when drones and asymmetric warfare weren't a thing. Accordingly, they aren't a thing in BT.

Mechwarriors are essentially knights. Sure, you can write a story about knights, but only if we ignore all the loopholes and problems that the concept of knights brings into our story.

Plus, BT was invented in the 1980s, in a mindset driven by corporatism and monolithic geopolitical world-views. Cold War! Nato vs Soviet Union! Five Houses against each other!
Nowadays we know that this is not how geopolitics works in the information-age. If mankind spreads out over this many planets, it's simply ludicrous to think that we would go back from complicated and splintered geopolitics to block-thinking.

The Cold War between the Houses only works because the authors deliberately limit the decision-making to the dozen or so characters we know, and completely ignore that societies DO NOT automatically follow the whims of their rulers.




So, Yes, Battletech could be invented nowadays all over again, but the underlying assumptions of this scifi-universe so far away from the current zeitgeist, that it's unlikely that the new Battletech would be the same as the old Battletech.

Okay, sure, but these are not what would battletech look like if were designed today, just reasons why battletech would look different. Which, we already know it would.

 

[Hypnotist]

@AngeliDiAvanti No one is saying that BT would not be different. The differences are the whole point. The purpose of my OP was for people to put on their game designer hats and speculate how they would create a giant fighting robot table game with today's technology and exactly how it would be different than what we have now. We all understand that certain leaps of logic would have to be made to make big stompy robots the rule of the day, just as they did when they designed BT. It's just a hypothetical thought exercise not an attempt at recreating modern warfare (with the addition of Mechs) on a table top.

How would you incorporate the incredible jumps in technology that we have seen since the 1980s. Would you stick with the medieval underpinnings? Or would you go a different route?

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

Also, mech construction would be very different. I really don't see anyone today thinking that multi-ton gyroscopes and equally massive computers would fit within a futuristic setting.

Those State-of-the-Art Battle Computers need some room and free tonnage. The Hard Drive alone needs a fork lift.



It's not like you could fit something that complex in something you could hold in your hand.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

LOL I forgot about computers being the size of classrooms back then...

Speaking of classroom and technology, to help us understand, maybe we should let Strong Bad give us a refresher. Might help in this conversation...

 

[Jade_Rook]

Looking at mechanics, I think a redesigned Battletech would need to be simpler. Probably closer to Alpha Strike than Classic BT honestly.

At the same time the different hit locations is one of the best things about the game. The gradual degradation of fighting capabilities. I love these parts of the game. We need to think up ways to streamline the game experience without losing too much of those aspects.

Combine to hit rolls with hit locations, probably by switching locations to a d12 or d20 and rolling it with 2d6 for to hit.
Cluster weapons probably need to change. They cause too much extra rolling. I would give them a single to hit roll then a fixed number of damage location rolls, probably no more than 4 per weapon.
Overall hit chances need to increase. Currently a target number of 7 is a good shot, but that is only a 58% chance to hit. I would remove, reduce, or change some of the modifiers involved with shots.
Heat needs to be simplified. Big scale with lots of different modifiers. It is too easy to lose track of.

 

[Hypnotist]

Looking at mechanics, I think a redesigned Battletech would need to be simpler. Probably closer to Alpha Strike than Classic BT honestly.

At the same time the different hit locations is one of the best things about the game. The gradual degradation of fighting capabilities. I love these parts of the game. We need to think up ways to streamline the game experience without losing too much of those aspects.

Combine to hit rolls with hit locations, probably by switching locations to a d12 or d20 and rolling it with 2d6 for to hit.
Cluster weapons probably need to change. They cause too much extra rolling. I would give them a single to hit roll then a fixed number of damage location rolls, probably no more than 4 per weapon.
Overall hit chances need to increase. Currently a target number of 7 is a good shot, but that is only a 58% chance to hit. I would remove, reduce, or change some of the modifiers involved with shots.
Heat needs to be simplified. Big scale with lots of different modifiers. It is too easy to lose track of.

A lot of good points here. I wouldn't miss lugging my clear tackle box full of 2d6s whenever I use a missile boat. Absolutely agree that hit chances needs some work. Instead of changing the hit roll system. I'm playing with some house rules on the movement modifiers encouraging mobility instead of punishing it. It has really sped up scenario times. More involving play too with a lot less turret play. When light and medium jumpers can flank and shoot accurately in the same round only the big monsters can sit still and brick it all.

 

[Timaeus]

Looking at mechanics, I think a redesigned Battletech would need to be simpler. Probably closer to Alpha Strike than Classic BT honestly.

This actually is a pretty good point. Alpha Strike is probably more what BattleTech would look like rules-wise if it was made now, though also with lore changes to accommodate what the world looks like currently.

 

[Apocal]

BT was invented at a time when drones and asymmetric warfare weren't a thing. Accordingly, they aren't a thing in BT.

What? Asymmetric warfare was definitely around when BT was made and absolutely featured in several of the novels. There were the first and second books in the Grey Death Legion trilogy, where the Grayson Carlyle had to basically fight a bunch of mechs with nothing more than infantry at first and the other, where the GDL were forced to wage a guerrilla campaign against the Combine forces occupying a planet. There were a few books early in the Clan invasion era, including the first (maybe?) of the Twilight of the Clans series, where there are regular civilian uprisings. Much of the Chaos March story is how the Capellans, through deception and such, can actually win territory back from the Federated Suns, in spite of their being relatively few force-on-force clashes.

And that's just off the top of my head.

So what do you think BT would look like if designed today? Keeping in mind we are still talking about a Sci-Fi Fantsy setting. Would 'Mechs still be kings of the linear battlefields? Or would they be more like elite special operations units in a universe where asymmetrical warfare is the doctrine of the day (which is how I tend to role-play in PC BT)? Would remote-piloting drone technology be applied to Mechs? Would it still be (roughly) based on The Hundred Years Wars era? Would the Star League be based (again roughly) on the Roman Empire or a more unified fictional United Nations?

These ideas and questions have been bouncing around my head for a while. I'm curious about what everyone else thinks.

Probably mechs would be the star performers, but you would probably see the combined arms baked more heavily into the setting. People say that BT has always been about combined arms, but the early rules for shooting at infantry basically meant almost any mech, medium or larger, with the heat to spare and nothing better to shoot at, could absolutely gut a full platoon using its standard anti-mech weapons. An Atlas' kick would get you halfway there by itself. A single inferno gave something like a 40% (correct me if I'm wrong) chance for a vehicle to burn to ashes, regardless of its armor, per turn. And that effect lasted multiple turns. Any hit on a tank forced a crit roll and the roll locations for a vehicles had more than one outcome where the vehicle would simply explode, regardless of armor. If not that, then they would be completely immobilized. Decades later, they revised those rules (for the most part) to make vehicles more survivable, infantry something other than mech fodder, rid the game of some unfun stuff and generally make putting forces other than mechs/aero on the table more worthwhile.

A BT built in 2019 would have the general expectation that combined arms is a thing and that units have counters. Battle armor swarm attacks wouldn't be quite so hit-or-miss in their effects, nor so difficult to pull off. Tanks might be the king of... well, tanking. Or they could continue to occupy a glass cannon, quantity is a quality role. The aerospace rules would probably be streamlined and their actual units left off the table, for the most part, as would artillery. In fact, the new BMM does exactly that, regulating aero and artillery to support points. Computer aids would make balancing an easier affair, so you wouldn't have outlier weapons (both good and bad) unless the developers simply didn't give a goddamn about balance. Construction rules would probably be written with the expectation of digital support in the form of an online builder or phone app rather than the pencil-and-paper (somewhat) friendly construction rules of our BT. It would probably ship with not only a BV/points system but also pre-made setups for a pickup match. This may or may not become standard, but it would at least be a starting point for one and done skirmish matches in the same way 40K is played.

They probably wouldn't make 4/5 the standard pilot, given how slowly the game plays out that way past introtech.

Five factions is quite possibly too few, but plowing an additional twenty into the setting would never fly. It was a bad idea to have twenty Clans as distinct factions, rather than a sub-factions in the same way the Fed Suns have the Crucis March and the Capellans have Tikonov. But something like five Great Houses and one ur-Clan (with semi-distinct subfactions), with minors for flavor would probably be good to go in 2019. I don't know how that would effect things story-wise, but I have to imagine with way more people being immersed in other cultures, you wouldn't see the cringe-worthy stuff of early BT, like ninjas running around killing people on a dropship with their katanas. Quite probably, the recent thing for moral greyness means the early stock of BT novels don't get written the same way, just because they were absolutely White Hat vs. Black Hat, pretty much all the time.