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...China competed for influence over communist movements throughout the world (especially Africa) and held Albania and Somalia in its SOI for quite some time.
This could be achieved by making deaings with China reduce a regions strength in either sphere just because China is in neither sphere. There can be solutions to this without modeling them as a superpower.

Still following the conversation, though our comments may be far apart.
 
I would like to see the Finnish special relationship with the Western powers and especially the Soviet Union represented. If the game takes place early enough, I would also like to see the war reparations and the positive long-term effects of this on the Finnish (and Soviet) economy represented, establishing a solid industrial base for Finland and a stable trading partnership between the two countries, not to mention eliminating any incentive for the Soviet Union to try and swallow Finland into it's sphere of influence.

On a side-note, the Marshall plan, along with a shattered situation for most European nations that participated in the war should definitely be represented if the game takes place during that time, nations that had not participated or at least been devastated in WW2 should have a major economic advantage to push from the start, having the opportunity to fill the production gap after the destruction of production capacity in the rest of Europe. This ultimately led to the rise of nations such as Sweden, Switzerland or even the USA into fabulous wealth and strong growth.

The Marshall plan if refused by a devastated nation or if denied aid, should doom a nation to a long and difficult path towards reconstruction, unless another opportunity to rebuild arises, as it did for Finland.
 
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how about regional historic wars? if the player gets involved it affects the outcome. if the player leaves them alone, you get an historical outcome.

or just regional limited wars? india-pakistan. india-chinese border clashes. israeli-arab wars. argentian-uk falkands war. etc...
 
how about regional historic wars? if the player gets involved it affects the outcome. if the player leaves them alone, you get an historical outcome.

or just regional limited wars? india-pakistan. india-chinese border clashes. israeli-arab wars. argentian-uk falkands war. etc...

Personally I would hate to see wars with pre-determined outcomes.
 
Personally I would hate to see wars with pre-determined outcomes.

Much more important to add wars with limited goals. A border skirmish between India and Pakistan over a couple of rocks in Kashmir shouldn't end with one or the other annexed, as in SR2020/2010.
 
Much more important to add wars with limited goals. A border skirmish between India and Pakistan over a couple of rocks in Kashmir shouldn't end with one or the other annexed, as in SR2020/2010.

Well SR2020 was mostly about Global Domination
 
Much more important to add wars with limited goals. A border skirmish between India and Pakistan over a couple of rocks in Kashmir shouldn't end with one or the other annexed, as in SR2020/2010.

More important to add non-state actors. India wouldn't want to annex Pakistan since that would lead to unending guerrilla war. Or at the very least international condemnation and economic sanctions.
 
More important to add non-state actors. India wouldn't want to annex Pakistan since that would lead to unending guerrilla war. Or at the very least international condemnation and economic sanctions.

You Would also need to be able to gain the loyalties of non-loyal areas for example North Vietnam taking over south vietnam, The Two Koreas, Bangladesh after independence from pakistan, or lose loyalties of regions.
 
Increased speed above all else!

And plase eliminate the random DoW's (Example: I DoW albania as greece, Vietnam Dow's me [:confused:])
 
To balthagor

First it was longtime without writing in this forum and the news of this game made me willing to participate. Now regarding the sandbox mode. or every country has to be playable. i understands some poeple want simplicity but although in 1949 only su and usa should be superpowers other countries ina 40 years span should be able to achieve this status although it should be very hard. If this game would be locked in playing only as usa su it would lose its appeal. now i undesrtand portugal because of its position would never be more than a "landlocked by the giant spain mediocre terzial power" however the stimulus of the game should not be the winning of one faction but the reuslt and advancment of this portugal if a player plays that country in the world scale lets say to a secondary power. the whole game should be played for terrain but mostly prestige. i agree with the proposer of this blog that we need four or five type of states and it is going to be harder and harder to move from the fourth to third tier and so on however not imposible. impsoible should be than in 40 years as somalia from a fifth tiered failed state you transform yourself as a african power thats very unrealistic.
economy should be at least 50% of prestige score. 25% military strength and 25% inteligence or rank wise or inteligence succes rate wise. Population numbers were nevertheless a big factor during this time.
If you are germany after 60 you might want a revanch in europe and realistically it was within their reach to create a third pole during this time. to see a four or five polar world should be reachable although not easy.
please dont kill this game with simplicity.
 
An Overhaul of the Tech Level System would be nice, Maybe make it to where tech levels were decades not years and you needed certain techs to advance to the next one with other techs just being optional, In SR2020 I would always run out of techs to research as Azerbaijan because my tech level would still remain in the early 80's despite having researched every single tech availible

Come to think of It why was Azerbaijans starting Tech Level 80 in the first place? thats the same as Angola, Azerbaijan is way more developed than Angola last time I checked.
 
I would love to see the space race and space technology represented (preferrably somewhat detailed), and fundable by all countries, with both experience and funding playing major roles. Cooperation in space technology should also be represented, along with political unwillingness limiting the spending on space technology.
 
The discussions about China in this thread are interesting, though I tend to agree with the view that in the early to mid cold war period, Chinese influence was limited. But more to the point, I think the concept works best when you focus on the central cold war themes, which are the tensions and push-pull between the US and USSR sides for influence and control. China makes an interesting diversion in the Sandbox games, and possibly scenarios, but does not qualify for "superpower" status in the cold war timeframe.
 
The discussions about China in this thread are interesting, though I tend to agree with the view that in the early to mid cold war period, Chinese influence was limited. But more to the point, I think the concept works best when you focus on the central cold war themes, which are the tensions and push-pull between the US and USSR sides for influence and control. China makes an interesting diversion in the Sandbox games, and possibly scenarios, but does not qualify for "superpower" status in the cold war timeframe.

that means more diplomacy, diplomatic actions and reactions between the two superpowers. the more diplomacy, the better. hopefully its high up on the list
 
Long ago, Chris Crawford wrote something on his own Balance of Power game.

THE UNINCLUDED FACTORS

The real world of geopolitics is a complicated place. Dozens or even hundreds of factors such as military power, diplomacy, economics, and religion influence geopolitical behavior. In the preceding chapters, I have discussed the four primary processes that 'Balance of Power' includes: insurgency, coups, Finlandization, and crises. However, 'Balance of Power' is a _game_, not a simulation; I have deliberately chosen to emphasize these four factors at the expense of others. The limited amount of RAM (the computer's memory), the need for clear conflict, and the requirement that the game be easily understood by the player forced me to maintain a brutal editorial discipline with the game. I removed or failed to include a number of processes that rightly deserved a place in a proper simulation of geopolitics.

The process by which I chose some factors for inclusion while rejecting others was not a matter of moving through a checklist and placing check marks in front of some items and Xs in front of others. The factors that went into the game grew naturally from fundamental considerations about my goals in designing the game, and some of those that didn't make it into the game were not rejected, but simply were never considered because they did not flow naturally from these fundamental considerations. Thus, one of the central concepts in the game was the notion of superpower conflict being expressed through conflict in minor countries. This naturally led to the use of insurgency and the options superpowers have for supporting one side or the other in an insurgency. Conversely, arms control never entered into the design because it is not a channel for superpower conflict but rather a (frequently failed) vehicle for superpower cooperation.

In this chapter I will discuss some of the factors, that, for one reason or another, never made it into 'Balance of Power': trade, multipolarity and neutralism, minor-country wars, arms control, human rights, and positive initiatives.

...
...
...

MULTIPOLARITY AND NEUTRALISM

'Balance of Power' presents a bipolar view of the world. The world is divided into two camps, those of the USA and the USSR. All other nations of the world exist solely in relation to this polarization. A nation's foreign policy is measured by its position on a scale between the poles of the two superpowers.

This is an overly simplistic view of the world. There is another way to view the world - the multipolar view. In the multipolar view, the United States and the Soviet Union are merely the two most powerful nations in the world. The world is seen as a collection of sovereign states, each with its own policy interests and capabilities. Nations are bound to and repelled by each other through a complex web of affinities and animosities.

The multipolar view is a more complex model of the world community. It allows a wider range of interactions between states. There are two important concepts in particular that find easy expression in the multipolar view: neutralism, and the emergence of China as a superpower.

Neutralism is the policy stance of those nations that do not wish to be identified with either the Soviet camp or the American one. Austria, Sweden, and Switzerland are neutralist. A good many Third World countries are also purportedly neutralist, but they prefer the term "nonaligned." In some cases, such as India, this term is appropriate, for India has steered a careful course between the superpowers. In other cases the term is misleading. For example, Cuba has gone to some length to establish its position as the leader of the nonaligned movement, but few nations accept the fiction that Cuba is in practice nonaligned.

The concept of neutralism just doesn't fit into the bipolar view of the world. Staunch supporters of the bipolar view often take the position that every country in the world is either "with or agin' us." A genuinely neutralist country like India is suspected of diplomatic opportunism - of attempting to play off the superpowers against each other.

Another important concept that multipolarity encourages is the developing role of China as the world's third superpower. For the next few decades, China will remain a minor character on the world stage, but this can change quickly if China can master its economic problems. Its huge and energetic population could quickly make it a major force in the world economic order, and its political stance as a Communist state with fundamental disputes with the Soviet Union make it a natural "third force" in the delicate geopolitical balance. Again, the bipolar view of the world sees China solely in terms of how pro-Western or how pro-Soviet it is, and so is blind to the much more likely outcomes.

The emergence of China could end the dangerously unstable situation in which the two superpowers find themselves. In a bipolar world, the only check on one superpower is the other. If you can destroy the other superpower, you have no rivals. The situation is drastically different in a tripolar world. To achieve global dominance, one superpower must destroy both of the other superpowers. Assuming that all three superpowers have roughly the same total power, this is quite out of the question. Moreover, the possibility of two superpowers forming a condominium against the third superpower is remote, for each of the conspiring superpowers would know that, once the third superpower was eliminated, they would be back to the bipolar world of today, with no guarantees of security. The weaker superpower would never go along with so suicidal a plan. A tripolar world would see lots of diplomatic maneuvering, many shifting pairings between superpowers, but it would be fundamentally stable.

MULTIPOLARITY AND 'BALANCE OF POWER'

If multipolarity is so superior to bipolarity as an explanation of the world geopolitical order, why then does 'Balance of Power' use a bipolar view? For three reasons: first, bipolarity is simpler and easier to understand; second, bipolarity is more intrinsically conflict-oriented than multipolarity, and games demand conflict; and third, bipolarity is not such a bad description of the world of the 1980s.

As with trade, early versions of 'Balance of Power' did include multipolarity. But just as trade ran up against the memory limitations of the Macintosh, so did multipolarity. For example, one of the most important concepts in the game is a quantity that I call "diplomatic affinity," which is the degree to which two countries "like" each other. In early versions of 'Balance of Power', diplomatic affinity was a two-dimensional array with 62 columns by 62 rows, although the matrix was collapsed along its diagonal to save space. This still consumed some 3800 bytes of space. It was necessary to have such a large array because multipolarity required that I record the diplomatic affinity of each of the 62 countries of the world for every other country: 62 countries times 62 countries. Later on, I reluctantly chose to eliminate multipolarity, and the diplomatic affinity array was changed dramatically. It became a much shorter two-dimensional array with only two rows and 62 columns - one row for each of the two superpowers, because it was only necessary to record how each country felt about each of the two superpowers.

Players of 'Balance of Power' should realize that bipolarity is not held in high esteem in most countries of the world. Indeed, one source of friction between the United States and its allies is the American fixation on a bipolar view of the world. "Americans," our allies complain, "always see the world in terms of _us_ versus _them_. The real world is more complex than that." For example, we tend to view the populist Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua solely as a manifestation of communist expansion in the Western Hemisphere, while most other countries view Nicaragua in far less sinister terms. They see a populist revolution that overthrew a brutal dictator. Overactive American imaginations, in the eyes of many foreigners, see the Dark Head of Moscow in every local fracas.

So which is right - bipolarity or multipolarity? There is no clear answer. These two concepts are not answers to questions, but rather ways of looking at problems. Each of the two views helps illuminate the complex events of the world scene. 'Balance of Power' only shows the bipolar view. Players should be aware of the multipolar view, for it explains some aspects of international behavior not addressed by the bipolar view.

MINOR COUNTRY WARS

Another factor that was removed from early versions of 'Balance of Power' was the ability of minor countries to declare war on each other. Such wars between minor countries have been a significant contributor to superpower tensions, and have on many occasions been the precipitating factor in major wars. World War I was ignited over a sideshow war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia. The major powers had no direct wish for a war but were dragged in by their commitments to their minor-country allies. An even more clear-cut case was the Korean War. Here were two very minor countries, North Korea and South Korea, each with its own protector, China and the United States. Neither the United States nor China had any desire to fight a war in 1950. But when North Korea invaded South Korea, the United States felt compelled to defend its junior partner. Later, when the United States invaded North Korea, China felt compelled to defend _its_ ally. Thus, two unwilling giants were dragged into a confrontation they had no desire to pursue solely because of the actions of their allies.

This is a major flaw in the nation-state system. It arises from the conflict between the notion of sovereignty and mutual defense obligations. Sovereignty is the notion that a nation-state is absolutely free to pursue its own interests, with no externally imposed restrictions on its behavior. Sovereignty is to a nation as freedom is to an individual. However, the sovereignty of states is compromised by their treaty obligations. A case in point is the relationship between China and North Korea. Now, in theory, a mutual defense treaty is written to guarantee assistance to a nation _only_ if it is attacked. In other words, China was under no formal obligation to assist North Korea, because North Korea had initiated the war. In practice, however, things work out differently. Powerful nations provide their client states with mutual defense treaties for sound reasons. For sound strategic reasons, it was in China's best interest for North Korea to survive, regardless of whether North Korea had started the war. Consequently, China had no choice but to intervene.

So here is the dilemma: Where does sovereignty end and client status begin? If North Korea had been a truly sovereign nation, it would have suffered the consequences of its mistake and been conquered. If, on the other hand, it was a proper Chinese client, then it would not have acted without Chinese direction, and the invasion would have been unlikely. The unfortunate fact is that North Korea was sovereign enough to start the war and client enough to get Chinese support when it started to lose. That is a dangerous combination.

Lest the reader think that this was a Communist mistake that we would never repeat, I shall bring up the subject of the American relationship with Israel. Israel is a sovereign state, and has demonstrated its sovereignty time and time again with its wars with Arab states. The United States cannot dictate policy to the Israeli government, yet is compelled by precedent and treaty relationships to stand by it. Once before, in 1973, we went toe-to-toe with the Soviet Union in support of Israel. We have no assurances that our relationship with Israel in another Arab-Israeli war will not bring us into another confrontation with the Soviets, one that we might not survive.
 
I really wish to see detailed longstanding conflicts like Arab-Israeli conflict and Indo-Pakistani conflicts, and different solutions to them like end of Israel and a Palestine instead, from Nile to Euphrates or peace at last etc

also will apartheid south Africa be portrayed in special way?
 
I need to spend some time organizing my thoughts, but in short.... I want plenty of options and things to do, economic policy-wise (and policy-wise in general). The idea of lobbies in the first page is good.
 
One of the most important issues for me is the gamespeed. I tried (and failed) to play SR2020 as a more economical game, but the glacial speed prevented me to properly play that way. Wondering if I was the only one dealing with this issue I managed to find the following thread: http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10679. It seems that more users have similar sentiments, though I was shocked to find that the user "Legend" defends the slow speed in the most curious ways. His location implies he's a BattleGoat employee, is this indeed the case?

SR2020 had all the necessary elements to be a great "expansion game" as well, where you first develop your nation before you plunge into war. Assuming SR:CW doesn't erode those features, it would greatly benefit from an increased speed. How is the game speed of SR:CW compared to SR2020?
 
THE thing I would absolutely like about this game would be to have a "cold" war, not a WW3. I think everyone knew at this time that a direct confrontation between USSR and USA would had meant (eventually) the end of the world, if one of them was to use nuclear weapon. So, stick on the diplomacy with many option before declaring war. Someone ask for non-state groups be better represented, I think this is a great idea. Like this you could finance north vietnam against USA and China, and talibans against the soviets without being at war.