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Fliits

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Oct 13, 2018
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Personally, before they shift full focus to working on EUV, I'd like to see most some of these added/changed:
  • Updated missions for Ottomans and Mamluks
    • Neither tree is at all up to par with the other major powers in any meaningful sense
    • Maybe an event reflecting the Battle of Ridaniya and the subsequent annexation of the Mamluks
  • Updated missions for Persia and mechanics to make formation of Persia more organic
    • Historically, the region of Iran has been unified more times than not, but in-game, you'd be lucky to see the Timurids unite Persia, let alone the historically accurate tag even forming
    • Updated missions and added events for Qara Qoyunlu and Aq Qoyunlu to reflect the history of both countries tribes
  • A government reform/formable nation for an Anglo-French union
    • Also a way to make completing the Angevin Kingdom easier, since currently, if you win the Hundred Years War immediately, you'll need to annex all of France before you can complete the mission (This takes at least 80 years and hundreds of diplo points)
  • Content for the Caucasus
    • Even content for Georgia would be nice
  • Improvements to colonization
    • More dynamic colonial tag names, more dynamic province names
    • Maybe a rework of the Rapid Collapse of Society so that the native countries don't immediately fully recover from it after either 25 years pass or after they learn what dividing state land ownership is
    • Africa wasn't colonized before the 19th century not because people had better things to do, but because of malaria. Colonizing Africa shouldn't be something most countries can achieve as an afterthought, historically it was a massive challenge and in game it should be reflected as such.
  • Update on some of the older disasters (Janissary Coup, Time of Troubles, Wars of Religion, English Civil War, estates seeking independence) to stand on par with the threat that more up to date disasters pose
    • I often feel that the game is too forgiving on players who "beat the early game." Historically, most kingdoms and empires faced just as much opposition from within than without, but for some reason after you consolidate your holdings during the first 20-30 years in game, the only threat you might face is a death by boredom if you choose to not expand that much.
    • Maybe it's a problem with how diplomacy works in EUIV, with the AI creating vast continent spanning networks of alliances before 1500 that usually lock all methods of realistic expansion, but I feel an issue on the same scale, if not even larger, is the unfaltering stability of the in-game countries. There has never been an empire that lasted even for 200 years without facing absolutely no crisis within that time (that we know of.)
    • Upscaling the existing disasters to make it so European hegemons like France, Russia, England and the Ottomans have to sometimes face an issue at home rather than at the front would do wonders in making the game feel more dynamic overall. The AI mishandling its economy shouldn't be the most common way for great powers to collapse.
  • General improvements to the late game
    • As stated above, the great powers in game consistently almost never collapse or even lose relevance after 1600. Having some form of in game mechanic to force the player to stay on their feet even after becoming an economical and military hegemon (not the mechanic) is more than appropriate in my opinion.
    • Institutions spreading across the globe in a matter of decades is ridiculous at best and completely ahistorical at worst. China didn't industrialize before the 1800s, not because they didn't want to, but because they did not have the capacity to do so.
      • Aren't the institutions supposed to function as markers for where the center of worldwide innovation is at any given time? Why can everyone else benefit from those improvements in a matter of years?
    • Some update on the Religious League War
      • In theory, it's supposed to function as a way for all European great powers to go to war over nothing at the midpoint of the game, but it's woefully inadequate in execution. The war between the leagues should be incentivized to start asap, perhaps even as soon as all electors have picked sides in the conflict. Subsequent countries joining the leagues would have to make individual declarations of war against the league leader which would lead to them joining the opposing league. This way countries like Russia and the Ottomans don't just join the leagues at a whim and completely negate any reason for either side to start the conflict in the first place.
        • I understand that this might be mechanically impossible to achieve, but even then, the option for great powers to prevent the league wars from beginning by using their sheer projected military power alone is utterly ridiculous and something has to be done to remedy this
Now, I'm just spitballing ideas that I've been thinking of for a while, I doubt any of these are really on the list of priorities for the devs. I get that after the Scandinavia update goes live they might just want to start working on something a bit more fresh instead of bungling on with a decade old game engine that can barely support the intricate spaghetti code layered on top of it. Anyway, looking forward to playing the old Lübeck content juxtaposed with the changes they make to Scandinavia.
 
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I believe the Middle East, Iran, the steppe region, and North Africa could all use a good amount of content, especially Georgia (who lacks the most out of all these) and Persia.

All steppe countries share the same mission tree, and it doesn't work well since it conquers west-to-east while it should be east-to-west for Chagatai.
 
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Mamluks and Persia, for sure. Each only have 5 missions, which is the same number as Albania and half the number of Lan Xang and Navarra. The rest of the Arabian peninsula could do with some love too. Really, the only countries with solid content and mission trees in that region are the Mughals, Byzantium and Ottomans.
 
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It's probably gonna be the middle east, but I personally would want some type of colonization rework. It has barely changed since release, and I really think it needs some improvements to make it more interactive and fun. Might be too much of a ask at this point though, and we're probably gonna have to wait for EU5 for a better system
 
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I 100% agree that there needs to be something to challenge the large nations internally, and that the disaster system should be expanded. Having modded a bit with the disaster system, it's actually a very powerful and flexible system, although I do not know how good performance is when it has many checks. A bit linked to this, stability should get a light rework. The thing I've thought about recently, is using something that keeps the -3 to 3 stability system (keeping that should make revamps of the system easier to implement, as many core systems like the events can just work as usual), but with the twist there is also a ticking stability score (0-100) that depends on a lot of factors. Does it hit 0, you lose a stability. Does it hit 100, you gain one. Things like corruption, war casualties, AE, developing,... could affect the uptick or downtick of stability.

The game needs a system to make countries "die", as in, become uncolonized provinces. While having a lot of native countries in America makes it more interesting to start there, they are a nuisance when you colonize these regions as European. There just isn't room. But, if natives could die and become uncolonized provinces, potentially by disaster, that issue would get solved, while Americas stay interesting for when you do start there. This system could also be expanded for Oceanian/Australian/Siberian natives. The way I tried to uncolonize provinces back when I tried it in a mod, the code many times resulted in bugged provinces views.

If such a system of dying out exists, something interesting could be made for Siberian civs. Have them as semi-countries, unattackable by other nations, and let them survive in the their own region or cease to exist. In the mod I mentioned now a few times, I've let natives compete with each other over empty provinces, to place their culture there (~tribal land now) and increase the native population there (native population gives a little goods bonus when colonized, which is better than giving development for low dev regions).

Some general updates are also needed, like the Ottoman mission tree. I also got annoyed by the stability of the Timurids, they almost always form the Mughals in my games, so I took a look myself. Apparently, it's quite easy to control your vassals as the Timurids, you just need a bit of prestige-throwing (maybe devving their province should work too?). Once you annexed a few, which goes fast thanks to your cores, you're all safe. This combination of a cheap strong short-term way to deal with the vassals and fast annexing makes it tricky to solve easily. Additionally, even if they find allies, they usually don't ally with each vasal, which means some will still side with you during the war. This extra power makes them back down from actually declaring the independence war. Their is no easy fix to the Timurid issues that doesn't feel forced.
 
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Middle East with massive overhauls of disasters. Disasters should, in theory, put the country on the route towards internal collapse. One of the ideas that I had is that the generic disasters: Civil War, Peasant's War, Revolution, Internal Conflict should be serious threats that rival external threats. All of this boils down to a serious improvement to internal politics that impacts external politics.
 
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First of all I would like to completely change the development of provinces, the current mana pumping is disgusting, the AI does not know how to use it and getting institutions this way is ridiculous.
 
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End of EU4. Return to Imperator:Rome
Seeing as how the Tinto studio's purpose is to make EU content (which at the moment means EU4), you're not going to get your wish. EU4 content will continue until the transition to EU5 begins. Nothing that happens--or doesn't happen--with regards to EU games will impact the fate of Imperator.
 
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At least the majors in the Middle East - the Ottomans, Mameluks and Persia should get decent mission trees before EU4 can be considered a "complete" game in my opinion.
Some rework - including mission trees - for pre-Columbian Central and South America, and most importantly mission trees for the Inca and Aztecs, would also be nice.

I don't think we should expect a more fundamental rework of game mechanics at this point of the game's development cycle, I am afraid. EU4 basically is what it is, and that is - in spite of several flaws - a really good game that has given quite many players hours and hours of fun. I would like to see it "completed" by adding the remaining "missing" mission trees and then Tinto should move on to EU5, where it certainly should try some fresh approaches and fundamentally different game mechanics.

Oh, and I specifically disagree with the suggestions regarding England-France. There isn't really a historical base for a unified tag - or let's say, more of a base than for a Spain-France or a Spain-England tag. And I also don't think that the Angevin Kingdom mission needs to be completed faster - mission trees, and especially large mission trees like England's, should be meant to be completed over the whole timespan of an EU4, not as speedruns.
 
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Seeing as how the Tinto studio's purpose is to make EU content (which at the moment means EU4), you're not going to get your wish. EU4 content will continue until the transition to EU5 begins. Nothing that happens--or doesn't happen--with regards to EU games will impact the fate of Imperator.
So EU can end like a World of Warcraft.
 
Actually, return to Rome isn't too bad an idea - all polities which at some point claimed to be Rome could do with some level of rework:

Roman Empire: Since you've essentially won already when you form this, why not give it some extra oomph in the form of a small mission tree and/or a unique government form.

Byzantium: Really old mission tree which largely gives claims on stuff. Could do with some spicing up, and maybe with a unique government.

Russia: Also a rather old mission tree, but overhauling this one might not be as high priority as the others on the list.

Ottomans: Old mission tree. Overhaul pls.

Rûm: NO mission tree. It could at least copy the Ottomans' tree.

HRE: Recently overhauled, but some mechanics still leave something to be desired, especially the league war mechanics (representation for reformed and hussites, maybe even anglicans and orthodox)
 
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Actually, return to Rome isn't too bad an idea - all polities which at some point claimed to be Rome could do with some level of rework:

Roman Empire: Since you've essentially won already when you form this, why not give it some extra oomph in the form of a small mission tree and/or a unique government form.

Byzantium: Really old mission tree which largely gives claims on stuff. Could do with some spicing up, and maybe with a unique government.

Russia: Also a rather old mission tree, but overhauling this one might not be as high priority as the others on the list.

Ottomans: Old mission tree. Overhaul pls.

Rûm: NO mission tree. It could at least copy the Ottomans' tree.

HRE: Recently overhauled, but some mechanics still leave something to be desired, especially the league war mechanics (representation for reformed and hussites, maybe even anglicans and orthodox)
Unfortunately, HRE mechanics are hard-coded concerning the league war, at least devs have said.

In the last patch Rûm was made to have Ottoman missions.
 
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Personally, before they shift full focus to working on EUV, I'd like to see most some of these added/changed:
  • Updated missions for Ottomans and Mamluks
    • Neither tree is at all up to par with the other major powers in any meaningful sense
    • Maybe an event reflecting the Battle of Ridaniya and the subsequent annexation of the Mamluks
  • Updated missions for Persia and mechanics to make formation of Persia more organic
    • Historically, the region of Iran has been unified more times than not, but in-game, you'd be lucky to see the Timurids unite Persia, let alone the historically accurate tag even forming
    • Updated missions and added events for Qara Qoyunlu and Aq Qoyunlu to reflect the history of both countries tribes
  • A government reform/formable nation for an Anglo-French union
    • Also a way to make completing the Angevin Kingdom easier, since currently, if you win the Hundred Years War immediately, you'll need to annex all of France before you can complete the mission (This takes at least 80 years and hundreds of diplo points)
  • Content for the Caucasus
    • Even content for Georgia would be nice
  • Improvements to colonization
    • More dynamic colonial tag names, more dynamic province names
    • Maybe a rework of the Rapid Collapse of Society so that the native countries don't immediately fully recover from it after either 25 years pass or after they learn what dividing state land ownership is
    • Africa wasn't colonized before the 19th century not because people had better things to do, but because of malaria. Colonizing Africa shouldn't be something most countries can achieve as an afterthought, historically it was a massive challenge and in game it should be reflected as such.
  • Update on some of the older disasters (Janissary Coup, Time of Troubles, Wars of Religion, English Civil War, estates seeking independence) to stand on par with the threat that more up to date disasters pose
    • I often feel that the game is too forgiving on players who "beat the early game." Historically, most kingdoms and empires faced just as much opposition from within than without, but for some reason after you consolidate your holdings during the first 20-30 years in game, the only threat you might face is a death by boredom if you choose to not expand that much.
    • Maybe it's a problem with how diplomacy works in EUIV, with the AI creating vast continent spanning networks of alliances before 1500 that usually lock all methods of realistic expansion, but I feel an issue on the same scale, if not even larger, is the unfaltering stability of the in-game countries. There has never been an empire that lasted even for 200 years without facing absolutely no crisis within that time (that we know of.)
    • Upscaling the existing disasters to make it so European hegemons like France, Russia, England and the Ottomans have to sometimes face an issue at home rather than at the front would do wonders in making the game feel more dynamic overall. The AI mishandling its economy shouldn't be the most common way for great powers to collapse.
  • General improvements to the late game
    • As stated above, the great powers in game consistently almost never collapse or even lose relevance after 1600. Having some form of in game mechanic to force the player to stay on their feet even after becoming an economical and military hegemon (not the mechanic) is more than appropriate in my opinion.
    • Institutions spreading across the globe in a matter of decades is ridiculous at best and completely ahistorical at worst. China didn't industrialize before the 1800s, not because they didn't want to, but because they did not have the capacity to do so.
      • Aren't the institutions supposed to function as markers for where the center of worldwide innovation is at any given time? Why can everyone else benefit from those improvements in a matter of years?
    • Some update on the Religious League War
      • In theory, it's supposed to function as a way for all European great powers to go to war over nothing at the midpoint of the game, but it's woefully inadequate in execution. The war between the leagues should be incentivized to start asap, perhaps even as soon as all electors have picked sides in the conflict. Subsequent countries joining the leagues would have to make individual declarations of war against the league leader which would lead to them joining the opposing league. This way countries like Russia and the Ottomans don't just join the leagues at a whim and completely negate any reason for either side to start the conflict in the first place.
        • I understand that this might be mechanically impossible to achieve, but even then, the option for great powers to prevent the league wars from beginning by using their sheer projected military power alone is utterly ridiculous and something has to be done to remedy this
Now, I'm just spitballing ideas that I've been thinking of for a while, I doubt any of these are really on the list of priorities for the devs. I get that after the Scandinavia update goes live they might just want to start working on something a bit more fresh instead of bungling on with a decade old game engine that can barely support the intricate spaghetti code layered on top of it. Anyway, looking forward to playing the old Lübeck content juxtaposed with the changes they make to Scandinavia.
These are all very good suggestions, have my comment for the visibility