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What's with the Persians?

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Mar 22, 2001
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I only wanted their three easternmost provinces (and 2 are just colonies), yet no matter how many provinces I took they only offered up to 2 provinces. I kept taking more and more provinces hoping they would offer three, but they only offered 1 or 2 and always rejected my demand for those 3 (their lowest value provinces to boot) - even after I sacked their capital. Anyway, this whole process took so long (almost three years) that I got so mad I militarily annexed all of Persia. Big mistake. My BB got so high I was jumped by Crimea, Golden Horde, Astrakhan, and Sibr. I brought in my ally Georgia to hold off Crimea, but my war exhaustion of 3 started getting me in trouble revolt wise, so I bought off the attackers. Now Spain has DOWed me but they have very weak forces so I'll probably just occupy Madrid until they sue for a white peace - I don't think I can afford to take any more provinces right now.
 
(I assume you're playing Turkey)

Same EXACT thing happened to me too. I had devised this whole plan to conquer Persia over the course of several wars but their refusal to make any good deals forced me to annex the whole nation in one war. BB jumped to 26 and lost a few provinces in Europe but it was worth it. Some of those European provinces are very poor and not worth keeping anyway (at least compared to all of Persia). I don't think it was a mistake for you to do so; just lay low for many years. Also getting Persia puts you in position to make contact with India (which has the same religion as Turkey) once you get land tech 11.
 
I had a similiar problem. I completely annexed the Mamelukes (after THEY declared war on me) in the GC and signed a white peace with Iraq, who had been allied with the Mamelukes. I went after Persia next, just to get a few provinces and Iraq declared war on me again. I annexed them, which was a big mistake, because Austria-Hungary, Venice, and Moldavia came after me, and later Poland-Lithuania. I defeated or bought off Venice, Austria-Hungary, Venice, Moldavia, and Persia, but the Poles were too much to handle and I lost badly. The problem I have discovered with Turkey is that they easily get hated by the Europeans. My relations go down even if I do nothing and increase my Catholic tolerance. I don't make enough money to give State Gifts to all the major nations, and spend on infrastructure-military. Anyway, I have started a new game and immediately joined a France-Savoy-Papacy-Poland Lithuania alliance. I figure that if France is on my side, Austria and Venice better look out if they attack me. The Poles later joining the alliance was a plus, as I don't have to worry about them. I think it is now time to fulfill my destiny and conquer the Mamelukes, Iraq, and Persia, as I believe my relations won't suffer with the nations I'm allied to if I annex them now. Am I right to think this?

Frederick II
 
If you really MUST have 3 ceratin provinces in your FIRST war, take all enemy porvinces and when you make the peace offer, decline full annexation.

Now instead take your 3 provinces and 250 D to boot, they will accept EVERY time (and Persia will more then likely cough up the full 250 D =)

If you decide to annex whole of Persia instead, I don't mind, as long as you don't come here complaining about you high BB afterwards ;)


My relations go down even if I do nothing and increase my Catholic tolerance.

It's your high BB that worsens your relations towards Europe. Fighting moslems in ROTW doesn't bother them otherwise ...

as I believe my relations won't suffer with the nations I'm allied to if I annex them now.

Yeah right, try it and see ;)

As I said above:
to keep your relations high, keep your BB low ...
 
1 point every 4 years! One annexation takes 40-100 years to clean up ya BB.
Enuff to make u cry :mad:
 
Originally posted by Belrick
1 point every 4 years! One annexation takes 40-100 years to clean up ya BB.
Enuff to make u cry :mad:
Click to expand...

Depends on where/how & how much you annex of course (dip or militry)...

Penalty starts at 1 BB (ie max 4 years ...)
 
In one of my games as Austria I've annexed Bavaria and Bohemia, wiped out the Papacy in a huge war involving a number of major powers and given Venice quite a slap. My BB is around 23 and I'm really not liked anywhere in Europe, except, by the Spanish with whom I've kept very good relations and maintained my alliance. The result is that no one will touch me, and I'm pretty sure if I were to fight Turkey or Poland alone I'd be in big trouble. The moral of this story? If you want to go around beating people up and annexing them, find yourself a big power as your best friend first.

What is a surprise is that Spain has been a very badboy (i'm an angel copared to him/her) but they have not one BB point.

As another point, can someone explain some alliances are automatically extended and others end in ten years (especially those which I'm the leader of or which only involve minors)? My alliance with Spain keeps getting extended (although a number of different nations have been thrown out and let in) and we're into the mid-1500s.
 
You BB value goes mainly up by annexing. That follows by declaring war and taking provinces. Anyway, this means that Spain isn't such a badboy, it probably has not annexed anyone.
The AI is sometimes quite stupid BTW- It lets rebels in one taken (freshly annexed province) win the fortress back and declare independence. This new country will declare directly war on the former occupying country, which will annex it again. This happens again and again until the major has a BB value skyrocketing up, with all other countries declaring war on it.
That is why it is so difficult to expand into the HRE as well: There are a lot of countries to annex, so your BB value will be quite high afterwards...
 
The Mameluks and Persians are both ROTW powers. And practically all their provinces are ROTW. Taking provinces from these powers will cost you no BB. Annexing them will cost 1 BB per province. So the trick is to allow persia and mameluks to retain control of one turkish CB province to allow for BB and stablility loss free DOWs well you go and take two provinces for each peace. If they offer you 3 before you demand 2 take it since you are going to take all their provinces anyway. Now keep this 5 year cycle up untill you are in a position to annex. Then take all provinces and get to the annex screeen. Then press cancel and take three provinces. A country that can be annexed will give 3 provinces for peace. Repeat this process untill only isfahan and cairo are persian and mameluk controlled. Then with these two provinces left annex them. Total BB cost 2BB. Allowing you to earn 1 BB per year against hungary frex by taking two provinces every 8 years in war. They should all be very dead and you still the "nice boy" of the meditteranian.
 
Yes. The absolute best situation in the world is to have a CB with a non-European country. That's just free provinces, and if they have allies, it's free wars with them.

If you don't have a CB, you lose 2 stability at a pop, and that's extremely expensive.

If you are playing Russia, the best situation is a Poland-Persia alliance. You can then eat Persia at a cost of one BB per war. In my current game I didn't achieve that, so I went the -2 stab route, and then ate the last 7 provinces in one bite. It would have been much nicer to be able to be more gradual about it, but I didn't want Turkey to get the CoT/Capital.

bruce
 
Originally posted by Viking
So the trick is to allow persia and mameluks to retain control of one turkish CB province to allow for BB and stablility loss free DOWs well you go and take two provinces for each peace.
Click to expand...

I think the Sunni vs Shia conflict gives an automatic CB, so don't bother with which provinces has shield or not.
Just don't convert them (until they only have one province left and you go for a diplo annex of course =)
 
Originally posted by Huszics

As I said above:
to keep your relations high, keep your BB low ...
Click to expand...

Honestly, although I agree with half of this, I'm questioning the other half. I play the GC on normal/normal, and I find that if you keep your BB low and let your relations go to hell, you'll still be okay. My current game is a GC with a slightly more aggressive Russia (BB 10-12), and I've had only one DoW against me as of 1653. The majors all hate me, but so what? They never attack.

If you want to talk about how to maximize power-mongering potential, how about this:

1) Keep your BB just low enough that your allies (future vassals) don't hate you.
2) Keep your BB just high enough that every once in a while you get attacked, which is free provinces.

Is there anything wrong with this strategy? I don't know if it's possible to walk such a fine line, but it seems like a little hatred might be a good thing.

bruce
 
Originally posted by brucemo


Honestly, although I agree with half of this, I'm questioning the other half. I play the GC on normal/normal, and I find that if you keep your BB low and let your relations go to hell, you'll still be okay. My current game is a GC with a slightly more aggressive Russia (BB 10-12), and I've had only one DoW against me as of 1653. The majors all hate me, but so what? They never attack.

If you want to talk about how to maximize power-mongering potential, how about this:

1) Keep your BB just low enough that your allies (future vassals) don't hate you.
2) Keep your BB just high enough that every once in a while you get attacked, which is free provinces.

Is there anything wrong with this strategy? I don't know if it's possible to walk such a fine line, but it seems like a little hatred might be a good thing.

bruce
Click to expand...

Ehm, your missing my point in the statment. If you WANT to have high relations with (almost) everyone, you cannot have a high BB (as it worsens relations over time).

This last part also means that your strategy will ultimatly fail, unless you pump in considerable ammounts of cash into friendly countries. Otherwise everybody will end up with -200 relations with you because of the BB value.
Though I guess, with the right balance you will be able to pull it off.
 
Originally posted by daboese
I wonder which country you want to vassalize as Russia....
Not many to select from :(.
Click to expand...

The "same religion" thing is a bit strange with Russia. It seems that you can vassalize anything you have a royal marriage with.

In a past game I vassalized Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, and Scotland, among others.

You can also annex them, if you have a nearby province.

bruce
 
Originally posted by Huszics


Ehm, your missing my point in the statment. If you WANT to have high relations with (almost) everyone, you cannot have a high BB (as it worsens relations over time).

This last part also means that your strategy will ultimatly fail, unless you pump in considerable ammounts of cash into friendly countries. Otherwise everybody will end up with -200 relations with you because of the BB value.
Though I guess, with the right balance you will be able to pull it off.
Click to expand...

Do you find that keeping relations high is generally useful? If so, how? Perhaps it matters more if you play a minor or a major that other countries have a CB on.

bruce
 
Originally posted by brucemo


Do you find that keeping relations high is generally useful? If so, how? Perhaps it matters more if you play a minor or a major that other countries have a CB on.

bruce
Click to expand...

There are no simple yes or no answers.
It depends on what type of game you want to play, Nice diploannexing or Agressive military conqering (and ultimately which country your plaing with).
For the agressive playstyle it's enough just to keep a few good friends in the positive range.
A militarily relativly weak country country going down the diplomatic route should rather have every one in the + range then in the - range =)
 
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