What's wrong with AI?

[roman566]

I have played for over 100 turns and decided to see how AI is doing... the word 'tragedy' doesn't even scratch the surface.
First we have Loa who had multiple gates all over the place and... didn't survey even a single system, as we know no survey means no colonies so after 100 turns Loa had whole 3 colonies they began the game with.
Next is So Force or whatever humans call themselves, they did slightly better, closest systems were surveyed... and that's it, no new colonies and no explored system besides those bordering starting ones through nodes.
Third one are Hivers, they have surveyed about 5 systems and didn't colonize single new world...
Last one was Morrigi, only AI that actually did something in that game, they had whole 8 planets colonized... seriously? I'm playing HIVERS and have 17 colonies, I'm limited to STL for good sake and have more systems surveyed and more planets acquired that FTL capable Morrigi.
There were 4 more AI players, but I simply couldn't force myself to check their progress or lack of thereof.

Can somebody tell me what's wrong with AI?

 

[Aradragoon]

Not gonna lie stopped playing the game because of this, I have had a few games like yours and a few where the AI do a little something strategically then stop. In addition the tactical AI is no better, they line up in a straight line and sit there while ou fight them meaning all your ships can come up on their side and fight 1 or 2 of them at a time.

Is there any plan to fix up the AI and make it a challenge? I mean I know that there is a focus on multiplayer but I do not want to sit there and play with 4 or more peopleand wait on

 

[Tavior]

Oh my those issues sound very serious. I recommend keep playing older game before the patch was apply and try to have fun. If not possible then I guess find something else to do and wait for the fixes.

 

[Ulzgoroth]

In my current post-patch game...
-The Liir-Zuul empire is playing reasonably well
-The Hiver empire is fatally buried in debt (over 3M in the hole and more fixed expenses than revenue), having colonized one planet, gated only a handful of stars, and apparently burned all their credit on a Star Chamber, a Polytechnic Institute, and dozens of cruisers which are sitting idle in reserves.
-One Zuul horde has only expanded a little, but have a healthy economy, a large bankroll, a ridiculously large navy, and a bizarre mess of node tunnels they seem not to be using for anything. The other has much the same, maybe one or two more colonies.
-The Loa appear to have done the same nothing as in the OP's game. No surveys, no new colonies even in the home systems, lots of gates. They've horded a stupid-huge pile of credits and apparently have no idea what to do with any of this.
-One Tarka empire is small-ish but healthy, while the other has barely expanded at all and is on the brink of debt-spiral. Looks like, like the Hivers, they sank all their credit into building very-high-level stations.

 

[unmerged(201662)]

Be aware that if you are playing against "Hard" AI, they get bonuses that do not appear when you "Assume" their empire. So you're seeing them sans bonuses being applied.
Also be aware that the AI is getting a series of strategic upgrades, and may show some odd behaviors as it gets tweaks. As someone pointed out if you don't want to see/go through that, don't upgrade for now. If however you don't mind, please report to Kerberos any oddies you find to help them tweak/correct the process faster. One of the things to also keep in mind is that players complained that the AI was expanding to fast and they wanted it to be a bit more "Sane" in their expansion, so expect them to go slower. The only real issue I see so far is LOA and Sol Force and Zuul not using their node lines correctly (which is being worked on). Working on the AI is not going to be a single "Switch" and poof AI with better brains, it's gonna be a process.

 

[Ulzgoroth]

Be aware that if you are playing against "Hard" AI, they get bonuses that do not appear when you "Assume" their empire. So you're seeing them sans bonuses being applied.
Also be aware that the AI is getting a series of strategic upgrades, and may show some odd behaviors as it gets tweaks. As someone pointed out if you don't want to see/go through that, don't upgrade for now. If however you don't mind, please report to Kerberos any oddies you find to help them tweak/correct the process faster. One of the things to also keep in mind is that players complained that the AI was expanding to fast and they wanted it to be a bit more "Sane" in their expansion, so expect them to go slower. The only real issue I see so far is LOA and Sol Force and Zuul not using their node lines correctly (which is being worked on). Working on the AI is not going to be a single "Switch" and poof AI with better brains, it's gonna be a process.

Uh. Are you serious?

So, for the record, I play on normal, so yes, 2/7 AI players in my game did in fact commit elaborate ritual suicides, they're not just dancing on the edge.

There's no way to de-upgrade, so it's more 'if you don't like it and didn't already have it on manual updates, don't play for a few weeks'. Which is familiar to most of us by now, I suppose.

And there is nothing 'sane' about colonizing just 3 worlds (not 3 systems, 3 planets) in over 100 turns. As the Suul'ka horde. They could be a lot worse, of course, but that really doesn't negate that they're playing incredibly badly.

If you think nearly half the AI players fundamentally failing to play the game (2 collapsing in station-driven debt, one Loa just not bothering to play the game) is no real issue I don't know what to say. I'm sure it will get better, and it may be a useful intermediate to making an AI that puts up a respectable fight, but at present it's pretty screwed up.

 

[unmerged(201662)]

Sigh, drama much?

1. Remember it's a game.
2. I didn't disagree with you, actually you're outline sounded more sane and really didn't highlight much other then more tweaking and such needs to be done, in I thought you outline was spot on, not bad, but not good either. Yours wasn't the only post here.
3. Remember it's a game.
4. Drama, really drama is needed here?

Yes I was serious, just because my post came after yours please don't take it as directed at you in particular and have some drama about it. Some have expressed more then your views as well, from across the gambit of it's terrible and it's hard (depending on the players views I've read). Though I guess in a way you have proven my point. Some will disagree, some will show drama and some will forget it's only a game.

Sigh.

Some things you can try to enhance your experience, while the AI updates are taking place:

1. Give the AI a larger bank account to start with.
2. Give the AI research boost (1-10 extra techs, take your pick).
3. Give the AI more planets to start with.
4. Increase the difficulty (such as it is).
5. Stop playing for a while and come back to it. LOTS of other games out there to entertain you.
6. Take up knitting? I hear it's calming. (last one is a joke and not sarcasm, just in case you missed it).
7. Relax, enough in life to get upset about, games that upset you I'm pretty sure are easily avoided. (...an other joke, though it is also good advice).
8. Because I'm so close to 10.
9. Next is 10.
10. Be happy (ier).
10a. Play online! People opponents (and allies) are so much better then any AI ever!

 

[unmerged(211273)]

How do you switch places with the AI? I'd like to see how mine are doing, but I can only play as my initial character.

 

[unmerged(201662)]

After picking your save and it lists all the "sides", right click on the one you want. (choose swap slots).

 

[jam3]

On the faction select screen you can right click on a player and choose swap slot, just load a save and swap slot to one of the ai, this last .4 patch the ai looks really good expansion wise, its really moving its fleets well.

 

[Ulzgoroth]

Yeah, I haven't spied on my AIs recently but aside from my doomed Hiver finally imploding they seem to have really gotten their games together much better.

 

[roman566]

Newest game started in .3 patch.
There are 2 AI that have millions of debt and are on brink of revolution.
There is Loa...
Rest does something... they have 9 to 15 colonies, compared to 36 mine, I think that giving AI 9 starting worlds, tons of technology and money might be necessary to have any kind of challenge. I'm going to try than now.

 

[roman566]

I think that giving AI 9 starting worlds, tons of technology and money might be necessary to have any kind of challenge. I'm going to try than now.

It didn't work. Only improvement I saw was that AI didn't bankrupt itself. They only colonized systems they owned, maybe one or two new ones but besides that no exploration, AI didn't even attack me when we met. Maybe I should stop setting AI difficulty to 'High'?

 

[Ulzgoroth]

It didn't work. Only improvement I saw was that AI didn't bankrupt itself. They only colonized systems they owned, maybe one or two new ones but besides that no exploration, AI didn't even attack me when we met. Maybe I should stop setting AI difficulty to 'High'?

You mean 'hard'? That shouldn't make the AI less capable, but it might be worth a try.

Though, uh. If it colonized new systems, it explored. It's impossible to colonize new systems without exploring. And declaring war on contact isn't necessarily a good idea!

...Are you playing with only one AI in the game? In that case I'd suggest:
-Don't! More AIs means more chances for at least one to get its game together.
-Specify exactly which faction the AI is playing as, some of them have more problems than others.

 

[roman566]

You mean 'hard'? That shouldn't make the AI less capable, but it might be worth a try.

Though, uh. If it colonized new systems, it explored. It's impossible to colonize new systems without exploring. And declaring war on contact isn't necessarily a good idea!

...Are you playing with only one AI in the game? In that case I'd suggest:
-Don't! More AIs means more chances for at least one to get its game together.
-Specify exactly which faction the AI is playing as, some of them have more problems than others.

Yes, I meant Hard, my bad.
AI did explore several systems, mainly those being 'next' to those already colonized. No long range exploration was done. I have two AI as my neighbors and they do not even try to explore my systems or systems around me that are empty. In most cases they had same amount of systems explored in 60 turn and in 160 turn, this means NO exploration for 100 turns.
I think that playing on default difficulty might actually improve AI, in the past I saw many AI exploring and colonizing many worlds, they do not do that after I started setting difficulty to Hard.
I play with 7 AIs, one for every faction. Loa are doing worst in my games, rest has some new colonies and didn't bankrupt, which is big accomplishment compared to some of my previous games.

 

[Lys91]

Sigh, drama much?

1. Remember it's a game.
2. I didn't disagree with you, actually you're outline sounded more sane and really didn't highlight much other then more tweaking and such needs to be done, in I thought you outline was spot on, not bad, but not good either. Yours wasn't the only post here.
3. Remember it's a game.
4. Drama, really drama is needed here?

Yes I was serious, just because my post came after yours please don't take it as directed at you in particular and have some drama about it. Some have expressed more then your views as well, from across the gambit of it's terrible and it's hard (depending on the players views I've read). Though I guess in a way you have proven my point. Some will disagree, some will show drama and some will forget it's only a game.

Sigh.

Some things you can try to enhance your experience, while the AI updates are taking place:

1. Give the AI a larger bank account to start with.
2. Give the AI research boost (1-10 extra techs, take your pick).
3. Give the AI more planets to start with.
4. Increase the difficulty (such as it is).
5. Stop playing for a while and come back to it. LOTS of other games out there to entertain you.
6. Take up knitting? I hear it's calming. (last one is a joke and not sarcasm, just in case you missed it).
7. Relax, enough in life to get upset about, games that upset you I'm pretty sure are easily avoided. (...an other joke, though it is also good advice).
8. Because I'm so close to 10.
9. Next is 10.
10. Be happy (ier).
10a. Play online! People opponents (and allies) are so much better then any AI ever!

It is a forum about a game, the game sucks since day one, people complain of it (those who did not gave up yet). Where do you see drama? sight...

 

[scritty]

It is a forum about a game, the game sucks since day one, people complain of it (those who did not gave up yet). Where do you see drama? sight...

I agree
I think the comments pointing out that the game has some AI issues that seem to make the need for strategic gameplay all but redundant - some 15 months after release and several months after re-release - are pretty fair. Essp as this game is supposed to be strategy based? I think the OP just thought the devs might like to know his experiences. The list of issues he raises are shared by others here, myself included.

I can play a very ponderous game, taking 150+ turns and never being challenged even on high difficulty settings. And by never being challenged I mean that in the literal sense. The AI never instigates combat at any point - at all - anywhere.
I can force it to attack by being overly agressive myself, but I can equally just claim 95% of the game universe myself and avoiding the AI's starting locations and some surrounding systems (and maybe a little buffer area if I'm so inclined) and happily just take my time and micromanage my way to ruler of the vast majority of the game unchallenged...in any way. Beating the AI players then with huge overwhelming force is a matter of simple mechanics rather than requiring any strategy or tactical nouce on my part

Checking the AI at any point after 50 turns will show most are broke, many have not taken any positive action for 100+ turns, they move a fleet - move it back - incur costs - get into debt - go broke.

It is like playing a two player hotseat game and just cancelling the other players turn when it comes up. I find it struggles to meet any reasonable definition of the term "game". Moving you fleets and winning is just about describable as "an activity". For all but the most inept of players - victory (if the game doesn't crash before it can be achieved) is an inevitability.
You can force AI into combat - (unrealistic once you know you don't need to) and no amount of bonus you give your AI challengers seems to make them initiate it themselves.

But then there is the combat itself. I worked out an almost flawless method of winning against stacked odds very quickly. 3/2 in the AI's favour by my subjective appraisal of fleet strength. No issue - I will win 100% of the time. Make the odds better than 2-1 in the AI's favour and I start to struggle as the sheer amount of damage that even the uncordinated attacks make can overwhelm.

Again - this is on the highest difficulty setting - giving the AI as many advantages in terms of cash and research as the game will allow.
It says something that I am playing Distant Worlds and Gal Civ 2 again.

But if no one is interested in hearing how the game seems broken to many users
If the devs have no wish to listen to the issues their paying customers are facing
If detailing the issues that seem blindingly obvious to players in a polite and detailed manner in the hope the developers can do something about it (hey - even make more money from the game and future updates and subsequent games by being a developer with a good reputation...wow - shocking)

...If they are not interested in that. Then why not just close the subforum and have done with it?
Or do they only want fanbois to post?

 

[Ulzgoroth]

The devs are pretty well aware that the AI is bad, I think, although giving them some good examples with proper documentation might perhaps be useful. And there's no question they know about the tactical AI being bad, they were talking some time back about moving to improve it after they get the strategic AI working better...though I'd note that the SotS I tactical AI was never really much good.

Though on the other forum some people do seem to be managing to get the AI to be non-trivially aggressive, so it seems it isn't quite so comprehensively busted under all circumstances. I've seen them aggressively fighting each other, so they can (or could, at least) conduct an offensive sometimes.

Bad AI is bad, people saying everything is just fine are annoying, but this thing is still being worked on and the problems don't seem to be being ignored. There were way bigger concerns than incompetent AI for most of the time since 'release'.

(Of course, if you look here for Kerberos to reassure you, expect a long wait...)