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Erzherzog von Osterreich
Feb 23, 2001
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I am currently playing the Hansa in a GC (v1.08, normal/normal) it is Jan 1619. After a long revolt
in which Zeeland, The Hague, and either or both Flanders and Holland were held by good Dutch/Flemish rebels - no Holland. The revolt lasted quite some time (over 20 years)
and there was at least two other minor revolts as well.

I checked the situation (specifically in 1588) and the population of Holland and Zeeland were under 5K. All
the Dutch/Flemish provinces are/and were Reformed and if Spain tried to send missonaries it didn't work. In 1618 both provinces were just above 5K. Situation there is now calm, no revolts any provinces.

Am I just jumping the gun? It seems in all my other GCs Netherlands formed mid to late 16th Century.
 
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Holland is one provinces necessary for Holland to gain their freedom. So if that isn't in the rebel hands for x time, they will not gain independance.
 
Right - Holland, Zeeland, and The Hague are the combo?

I guess I am asking - isn't this late in most GCs for Netherlands to not have declared independence?

I know the nationalism event still has some time.
 
Yes, I have also experienced the revolts, playing as Spain, and they were so severe I was prepared to abandon those provinces and let the Dutch form. Then a war with England happened, and they invaded and took the rebellious province of Holland for a couple of months before more rebels kicked them out. I got a white peace with England, and nothing more really happened to the rebellious provinces in the Netherlands, until I some several years later noticed that the revolt risk factor was down to 1 or 2%. Cautiously I kicked the rebels out, and true enough, the revolt risk stayed down. The Dutch never declared independence, the rebellion just died down - probably somehow disturbed by the English jumping in there for that short period of time!

Suffice to say I was quite happy to continue enjoying the nice economy of the Dutch provinces for the rest of that GC :)

RoB
 
Thanks to all for input - always learning something new.

So, now that it appears no Netherlands this GC, Hansa policy regarding the Dutch/Flemish provinces will need to be revised :)
 
I am currently playing as Spain and mired in a seemingly endless struggle to suppress rebellions in the Netherlands. It seems to be one of those Vietnam-like situations and I am beginning to wonder if it's worth it. I know that historically Spain was unable to hold on to these provinces and, considering the amount of treasure I am pouring into the effort, I'm wondering if the balance sheet (even in the longterm) will show a profit if (and it's looking like a big if) I can eventually quell the rebels. It does look like the lowlands have a potential to bring in a lot of taxes, etc. but you have to collect them first and all I'm collecting so far is cannonballs. I note Rob Roy's success after an unsuccessful English adventure but this sounds like an anomaly. Any opinions out there on a rational Netherlands policy for Spain?

I also have a question about the round of rebellions and sieges in this war. At this point, I'm just trying to hold on to Holland and suppress the rebels there. I have a good-sized force and am able to win every battle but after each victory I find that I no longer hold the city and must sit through another six or nine month seige. I'd like to use this province as a base to build a second and third army to take the other provinces but I can't do this during a siege. Once the city falls, I start building more troops but then the rebels show up again and I lose the ducats spent on new troops, the new troops, and the city. I start another siege and so it goes. If I hold the city and am able to suppress every rebel uprising, isn't it logical that I should continue to hold the city after I have sent them packing?
 
I never siege. Assaults generally cost no more than sieges in the long run, and you get the city back right away. If the first assault fails, send in about 5,000 more infantry and do another one; the fresh troops bring morale up faster.

I've never been through a Netherlands revolt, but from the sidelines it appears to be more intense than in other countries. Good luck.

BiB, you should try Spain. It's the only country where I never attack other European powers, so obviously it should suit your peaceful intentions. Except for the Aztec and Inca affairs. Spain needs to stay at peace in Europe because she's too spread out and cannot defend all that territory against a determined opponent. After defeating the Aztecs and Incas, Spain becomes an exercise of management. There are many things to manage, especially in the New World.
 
I never attacked other Europeans as England or Portugal either. Spain is just way too easy. Their colonisation chances are really high (better than TPs) and they get tons of the Conquistadors to make the chance even higher and they make enough money to place colonies continuously.

Which provinces are the ones that get Dutch Nationalism? Luxembourg? Flanders? All of the ones in that area?
 
Originally posted by robo
I never attacked other Europeans as England or Portugal either. Spain is just way too easy. Their colonisation chances are really high (better than TPs) and they get tons of the Conquistadors to make the chance even higher and they make enough money to place colonies continuously.

Which provinces are the ones that get Dutch Nationalism? Luxembourg? Flanders? All of the ones in that area?
Click to expand...

Zeeland, Holland, Den Hague, Friesen, Flanders big time and a bit in Hainaut.
 
IF I play peacefully, I tend to go for England. And I use soem version of IGC where the Netherlands are Austrian-Habsburg (as they were in 1492) so Spain has a quite different role and should be very suited for a peaceful game then. Just keep Iberia, meddle a bit in Italy and colonize like crazy in America.

Right now in my current game with France, I have become quite huge in Europe without military annexing one single country. Only conquered the southern Netherlands from Austria. Diplo annexed all the neighbouring countries so that I now have a France with 'natural' borders, Rhine, Pyrenees, Alpes. Concentrating on colonisation now. I'm very xure that if I want to I can run over anyone though :D

That's the main gripe I have with it, it's way too easy playing with a minor. I'm just doing it now to see how it all could end with a 'different' France (hugenot pacifists :D) Spain, England, Russia, Turkey ... all too easy IMO. But this is just a testgame. The game goes quite differently with a different type of France.
 
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