Which Divisions are good for new players?

[Mister Maf]

Assuming he's going to learn by playing teamgames... 2Pz is the strongest German division, so I would recommend that one. You get 150 income in B, along with Jagdpanzer IVs and the Aufk. Panther, and then you get elite Panther As in C. Using German heavy tanks - and the Jagdpanzer IV - you can engage enemy armor and AT guns frontally, which doesn't require alot of micromanagement compared to flanking.

Problem is 2nd Panzer is a DLC division and most new players in my experience don't get the DLCs until they know whether they will play the game regularly or not. You can also engage frontally with the Firefly, Jagdpanzer, and legions of Panthers in 12. SS-Panzer, and it comes with the game.

Agreed on 3FJ being... not new player friendly. The airborne decks in general are trickier to play because they're extremely specialized for infantry combat and you have to work to mitigate their weaknesses. I think the better players on this board take it for granted because it's so strong once you know how to play, but there's a higher barrier of entry for the people who aren't there yet. Mechanized infantry decks like the 15th Scots are definitely easier.

 

[vonLuck]

First the FJ's are not at all hard to jump in and play. Elite infantry will bowel over almost anything a comparable opponent has to offer. I don't know if you boys have spent a lot of time looking at zones where infantry decks spend their time but long range isn't really an issue - infantry zones often involve humping it through hedgerows or thick woods a couple pupchens later and the core of your combat zone is covered. The FJ's were offered not because they are meta but because you can learn to use infantry which represents 1/2 The game. Your squads are deep, vetted, and deadly, burried in an infantry zone it's hard NOT to succede. Is the division fantastic? No but it is a solid foundation for learning the game. Meanwhile people in here keep acting like a complete noob is going to even understand or appreciate something like a pak 40 in A? Get real! that comes after the first dozen games. You think a noob is going to run 2 PzIV's in phase A without getting them hammered by AT?? Gentlemen context is king here. This player has never touched Wargame - start with the most basic easy to use things. From this longtime gamers perspective it's hard to get simpler than 3rd FJ and boy is it straight forward to use. Point said player to an infantry zone and let them go to town.

Compared to 5 man stoss troops that are powerful but frail or relying on "meme worthy" Nebels I hardly see a better option. Armored decks all lack adequate infantry and hinge upon good use of soft support vehicles. Spend a minute and consider what makes most German decks good. 99% of what first comes to mind requires good game knowledge to run and or extensive micro.

Anyways I rest my case. Jumping into these games is hard and there's a lot to learn but you can cover a lot of ground just playing games and watching replays. I would suggest forgetting about what you consider cheesy and give them the space to find it out on their own same goes for meta. Part of the fun with these games is the discovery of units and learning about them.

von Luck

 

[Edgars]

You think a noob is going to run 2 PzIV's in phase A without getting them hammered by AT??

This is so true! New players mostly put their tanks on "move" orders, so most of the time you can pick them off without even worrying to be shoot back at. To be honest, in my opinion, default/simply right click order must be "hunt" not "move" order. I personally, very rarely use "move" order - mostly just "hunt" or "fast move", so such change will not only reduce unnecessary button press for most of my orders, but will greatly increase lifespan of my laptops "Q" button + new players won't lose their tanks for free just because they don't even realize that on "move" order they can't use their main gun!

 

[Dianno5741]

3rd Falls will also have vetted planes and 88s to control the skies.

Also it teaches the player how to fundamentally stun tanks and ambush because all you have are stugs. That’s important for anything not a panther and above.

I am a mediocre player and 3rd Falls/12th SS were my starting axis decks

 

[steve1]

Personally I think 3FJ is one of the hardest divisions to play. You don't get any Marders to deal with Allied armor from a distance, and all of its infantry is expensive. Also, planes are not that easy to use (well), so it's better for a new player to focus on the ground first.

Agreed. I think 3FJ has too many limitations especially against a good player. When someone starts flaming your expensive infantry big gaps will open.

 

[vonLuck]

Agreed. I think 3FJ has too many limitations especially against a good player. When someone starts flaming your expensive infantry big gaps will open.

Pioneers care not for your puny flamethrower.

von Luck

 

[steve1]

Pioneers care not for your puny flamethrower.

von Luck

Pioneers are phase b troops. Your expensive jagers can be cleared before then with the right troops opposing them. Squad size flamers will see to that. Jagers carry their own AT which is good and have long range powerful mg. I don't find them that good in close combat though. Why?

Does their mg support weapon shut down at ranges under 100m?

Armour and AT is poor to middling.

Air power is good but if against a us div where everything has AA you are going to find it quickly negated.

That said, I'll prob try them again as I tend to play divs which I tend not to be able to win with. It's a great game that due to the division compositions gives so many options.

Flawed. But great too.

 

[KillaJules]

A 3rd FJ player can avoid that by placing his infantry in hedgerows and not dense forests or towns that allow enemy infantry to sneak up at close range. Panzer L6s are not to be underestimated either since they are excellent against half tracks and infantry that try to get too close to your fallschirmjaegers. 3rd FJ's AT options are great for this play style. That said, this division is a bit one dimensional and their income curve doesn't seem like a good fit for them.

 

[steve1]

But does anyone know the answer to...

"Does their mg support weapon shut down at ranges under 100m?"

I thought there was cumulative power as the ranges closed down but I think I read somewhere that some weapons become unusable below a certain range.

 

[Mister Maf]

Most squad MGs stop shooting below 100m to give CQC squads a chance to do the thing they do, MG42 included. AFAIK, the dedicated weapon teams don't have a minimum range, but double check on that.

 

[fufubear]

Most squad MGs stop shooting below 100m to give CQC squads a chance to do the thing they do, MG42 included. AFAIK, the dedicated weapon teams don't have a minimum range, but double check on that.

This is true. LMGs shut off at 100m but HMG (and MMG) teams fire at all ranges.

 

[steve1]

This is true. LMGs shut off at 100m but HMG (and MMG) teams fire at all ranges.

Thanks, that's good to know. The FSJ aren't as brilliant as people previously made out then, maybe they were in the early version of the game.

I played more with them on Friday. There's just too many gaps in the div that a decent player can exploit.

Maybe good to learn with though which was the original question asked.

 

[Protosszocker]

2nd inf and 15 inf on Allied side, well rounded decks with many units in every sector but no must have units you are not allowed to loose, maybe also pancerna if you wanna learn how to play tanks as they have any tanks you need on the allied side.

For axis 17th ss as the all around division 12 ss panzer as a well rounded step into panzers and 91st luftlande as a division with a lot of gimics but not to strong depending on one (even though you should learn your air game if you play with them as it is significantly easier to win with them if you controll the air)

 

[steve1]

2nd inf and 15 inf on Allied side, well rounded decks with many units in every sector but no must have units you are not allowed to loose, maybe also pancerna if you wanna learn how to play tanks as they have any tanks you need on the allied side.

For axis 17th ss as the all around division 12 ss panzer as a well rounded step into panzers and 91st luftlande as a division with a lot of gimics but not to strong depending on one (even though you should learn your air game if you play with them as it is significantly easier to win with them if you controll the air)

I find that these divs with a high air quota such as 91st, their air becomes unusable by phase B or mid to late A if your opponent has set up a good AA net and for sone allied divs almost every vehicle comes with AA.

 

[Protosszocker]

I find that these divs with a high air quota such as 91st, their air becomes unusable by phase B or mid to late A if your opponent has set up a good AA net and for sone allied divs almost every vehicle comes with AA.

you just have to target the aa before it gets too strong, arty on bofors, and kill single aa half tracks with the at planes beforeh gets 3-4 of them

 

[Mister Maf]

you just have to target the aa before it gets too strong, arty on bofors, and kill single aa half tracks with the at planes beforeh gets 3-4 of them

Sometimes easier said than done but this is true. It's also a good way to make your opponent bleed points — constantly having to buy AA to defend against your plane attacks killing their AA. Make a focus of killing every AA piece you see as quick as you can and eventually the one reaching a critical mass will be you and your air force instead of them and their ground defense.

 

[HaryPL]

There is no 'easy' german division for beginners, only bad and worse choices.
On allied side 15th Scotts are really nice due to cheap (infinite) infantry and a lot of good AT guns and HMG vehicles. 2nd Infantry is one of the best decks overall, though with low-HP Rangers Squads the infantry-gameplay bar is set up higher. Then there is 4th Armored that's just without single hole or drawback, if you have DLC that should be go-to division. The moment you get the very basics of the gameplay (start game openers, vehicle stunning/ proper targets) all the other divisions open.

As axis? ..

Try 12 SS if you must - at least you will learn fast how to keep your singular tanks alive for the very begging; it will come handy later on. It's the best out of bad, nothing particular spectacular (beside that phase A firefly and cromwell cs combo and maybe phase B Wittman if you want to count that) but otherwise deck has its ground covered on standard level.

21st (Rommel) is not bad as well, though it will give you important yet painful lesson = Axis always get to mid-point last. On the other hand you at least have some pretty good fire support options, so you will learn how mortars/mlrs work and how they save Axis ass. There's also King Tiger in C so 'yayy Krupp Stahl folded over 1000 times' factor.

With the one above comes DLC 2nd Panzer. Pretty pretty decent (and unlike 4th AD and some other decks you can cheer yourself up that you're using actually balanced deck where you have to make some tough choices and not just put in everything from across the whole board, with points to spare) with some unicorns sprinkled over the various phases [ PzIV in A (even if that should be somewhere from very start..), Bogward, manageable infantry (also with STGs in B), 2vet Panthers in C yay ] but.. as 21st taught you that mortar/mlrs is life, here you don't even have mortar or basically any fire support but off-map PzII ( = NO SMOKE) in A phase, and later only tube artillery. Versus good players it will kill you in phase A, painfully.

Don't touch the rest for the beginning. They either have:
- overpriced infantry that stat-wise is still bolo-stomped by any of Allied commando divisions in any reasonable combat scenario for infantry [ = CITY], and if not in such then its basically instant-shredded by 0.50cals that are but everywhere (and you can't reinforce unlike in RD). [ Hi, 3rd!]
- normally priced infantry that is basically a trash, possibly demoralized one, and thus require a lot of input (skill, micro - call it whatever you like) with support units to make anything off them
- combination of above, with neither having enough of any of above nor the support.
- price-ish gimmicky 'specialized' infantry that has literally no battle endurance in SD, and unless you micromanage smoke and stunning mechanics it will evaporate the moment you use it for anything (cuz you can't reinforce and I DARE you to kill enemy 12 man squad with 5 man squad with no losses and then be ready (supplied) to duke it further with other enemy squads)
- terrible AT options while everyone and their mother on Allied side have Stuarts and Shermans in numbers since A
- pricey, theoretically good vehicles yet ones that come at no vet.. thus they get instantly stunned, panicked and then picked off for no gain and without much hassle from Allied player.
- reliance on field guns / weapons squads. That get simply arty-ied to death at sight.

 

[King_of_Sweden]

This is so true! New players mostly put their tanks on "move" orders, so most of the time you can pick them off without even worrying to be shoot back at. To be honest, in my opinion, default/simply right click order must be "hunt" not "move" order. I personally, very rarely use "move" order - mostly just "hunt" or "fast move", so such change will not only reduce unnecessary button press for most of my orders, but will greatly increase lifespan of my laptops "Q" button + new players won't lose their tanks for free just because they don't even realize that on "move" order they can't use their main gun!

...well that explains a lot...

 

[Yung Rommel]

How are 88mms, shreks, and fausts terrible AT options...

Learn to play better

 

[KillaJules]

Thanks, that's good to know. The FSJ aren't as brilliant as people previously made out then, maybe they were in the early version of the game.

I played more with them on Friday. There's just too many gaps in the div that a decent player can exploit.

Maybe good to learn with though which was the original question asked.

3FJ were good before powercreep from 4AD. It looks like they have 2 problems to me: they need lw-jaegers in A since they need cheap infantry and their 1000 m range mortars are overpriced at $70 and they only have 2 per card with 1 star. They shoudn't cost more than 60 and they shouldn't have less than 3 per card. 2 star vet wouldn't hurt either. The LG40 and LG42 support guns suffer also from lack of range.

I find that these divs with a high air quota such as 91st, their air becomes unusable by phase B or mid to late A if your opponent has set up a good AA net and for sone allied divs almost every vehicle comes with AA.

I really don't understand why 91st even though they are air-focused, have basically nothing to deal with air in A and have no way to protect their precious few field guns from a single fighter-bomber. They get an AT plane in A but have no way to use it without it being shot down, while SSB get all kinds of air in A and loads of tanks per card.

There is no 'easy' german division for beginners, only bad and worse choices.

Axis divisions are harder but you exaggerate a lot.

- overpriced infantry that stat-wise is still bolo-stomped by any of Allied commando divisions in any reasonable combat scenario for infantry [ = CITY], and if not in such then its basically instant-shredded by 0.50cals that are but everywhere (and you can't reinforce unlike in RD). [ Hi, 3rd!]
- normally priced infantry that is basically a trash, possibly demoralized one, and thus require a lot of input (skill, micro - call it whatever you like) with support units to make anything off them

Axis infantry are only bad in inner city fights and there are plenty of places on most maps for them to do well. The cheaper infantry are great because they are disheartened which means that they get suppressed faster and so take less damage.

- terrible AT options while everyone and their mother on Allied side have Stuarts and Shermans in numbers since A

Shermans are usually hard to deal with in A, yes, but Germans get lots of good AT at the start.

- pricey, theoretically good vehicles yet ones that come at no vet.. thus they get instantly stunned, panicked and then picked off for no gain and without much hassle from Allied player.
- reliance on field guns / weapons squads. That get simply arty-ied to death at sight.

Only the 12th SS gets a strong but non-vet tank in A and even then, you'll only lose it or get it stunned if you charge it into enemy positions. For Allies, only 4AD get vet on something better than a Stuart so that argument works both ways.
Arty isn't common or powerful enough in A to insta-stun or kill field guns or weapon teams.