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Who would win if a CKII kingdom fought an EUIV kingdom?

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Keizer Harm

Keizer Harm

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Jan 28, 2013
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The CKII kingdom (let's say England) can use every CKII mechanic on itself and on the EUIV kingdom (let's say France), and vice versa. Armies are of equal strength at the game start, which is 1066 for CKII and 1444 for EUIV. They share a land border (England has Normandy) but otherwise there's nothing but sea between them. England is the attacker (Claim on k_france, aka cores in all of France). Feel free to speculate for the other factors.

Imho, CKII-England stands a good chance at the start because their armies can land anywhere (EU4 ships can't interact with them) - plus they can assassinate generals and good rulers. But when EUIV-France invents artillery, England is toast.
 
I believe the EUIV kingdom would win since they could more easily rebuild or reinforce their army after a lost battle. CK2 levies and retinues are harder to replenish.
 
The entire question is a bit weird. It's like asking whether a pawn from Chess could capture the Ace of Spades when playing Darts. They're incompatible beyond reconciliation by intuition alone. (and as the EU4 converter shows, the mapping between CK2 and EU4 mechanics is rather tricky to formalize anyway)

But all that said, doesn't France start with 20-something thousand standing soldiers in EU4? That's way more than what 1066 England can muster up, plus France has a couple of levels of technological advantage. I'd say regardless of what model you use, either France wins or the model is stupid.
 
Eu4 France starts with twice the army, room for twice THAT, 20K ducats of potential loans, mercenaries, defensive allies, and impassable forts. Pretty one sided. They're both historical simulators, made by the same company, and one of them is 800 years later. EU4 armies would destroy ck armies just as easily as they'd be destroyed by vicky armies which would in turn be dissolved in hours by HOI armies. That's called technological progress .
 
The CK2 kingdom would stand a decent chance if:

a) It was large and rich enough (like France, Rajputana or Egypt, or the like).

b) The EU4 army facing it is still in 15th or early 16th century level of technology.

Anything after that would be a defeat for a CK2 kingdom. Armies start becoming more loyal and organized, and even the smallest nations in EU4 can have a manpower and army size larger than CK2 kingdoms.

That said, Empires are a different case entirely.
 
Mercs and loans make this no contest, if the CK2 kingdom runs out of money they lose all mercs, get a morale modifier, and potentially have them change sides.

Only way I can see CK2 winning is if the two states are massive empires that can throw ridiculous amounts of manpower at each other in a decade long slog; in that situation the CK2 empire might be able to outlast the EU4 on manpower due to their higher recovery rate, but outlasting the mercs/finances as well is far from a given.
 
Wouldn’t really matter as the ck kingdom could never demand more than the war goal...
 
Now, I know that these two games use a different combat and technology system so comparing them is really odd, but 1066 CK2 vs 1444 EU4? There would logically be about 22 EU4 tech levels of difference between these two nations, and that would make the CK2 armies about as effective as natives against EU4 armies.
 
--Yigito123-- said:
There would logically be about 22 EU4 tech levels of difference between these two nations, and that would make the CK2 armies about as effective as natives against EU4 armies.
Click to expand...

Actually not that many - Tech level 0 is "Pre-Medieval Military" in EU4 and Tech level 1 is "Medieval Military". France'd still have a lot more men to throw of course.
 
kviiri said:
Actually not that many - Tech level 0 is "Pre-Medieval Military" in EU4 and Tech level 1 is "Medieval Military". France'd still have a lot more men to throw of course.
Click to expand...
It depends on how you look at it. Does EU4's tech tree start from tech 0, ignoring the flavor text, when CK2's tech tree ends? Or is the entirety of the CK2 military tech tree contained in EU4's Military techs 0-3?

How does the converter convert tech levels, if it does?
 
My headcanon was that tech levels would be equalised, because otherwise EU4 would win by default. Only specific strategies and combinations (like artillery vs cavalry) would carry over.
 
zmarcos said:
The CK2 war goal is the title of Kingdom of France, so they annex all of France.
I doubt that you can annex France in a single war in EU4.
Click to expand...

In EU4 you can PU France in one war. Pretty much as going for kingdom title in CK2. It’s a PU in CK2 as well, the Map just doesn’t show it.

The question is stupid tough.
 
This:
Keizer Harm said:
(EU4 ships can't interact with them)
Click to expand...

Does not mesh with:
Keizer Harm said:
The CKII kingdom (let's say England) can use every CKII mechanic on itself and on the EUIV kingdom (let's say France), and vice versa.
Click to expand...

However, the main advantage of CK2-England is that it has 3+ forts per province, combined with EU4 having a limit to the max ticking warscore you can get...
Englands best strategy is playing the long game, and using trying to destabilize France.

The scenario doesn't mention anything about the other countries in the world, which would be a deciding part of the game - CK2 probably has a bit easier time getting allies (Marriage helps), and as someone else mentioned France can be starved of monarch points due to assassinations. Not to mention - Being next to someone that advanced will cause your techs to skyrocket - especially with a spymaster in Paris.
 
My question hinges on the army composition of the CKII army. Do we get to pull on the magical "cultural retinue tactic" bonus? I assume we do.

I think the question would work better if we compared 1444 armies from both games, since CK actually overlaps EU by 3 years. Otherwise the tech difference would be too huge.
 
CK2 ships have no attrition but also can't defend the strait. But you could probably use that info somehow to cheese the EU4 nation.

I think EU wins in the end no matter what though.

Hoi4 could annihilate any other game I think. Unless somehow we find a way to include stellaris :p
 
klopkr said:
CK2 ships have no attrition but also can't defend the strait. But you could probably use that info somehow to cheese the EU4 nation.

I think EU wins in the end no matter what though.

Hoi4 could annihilate any other game I think. Unless somehow we find a way to include stellaris :p
Click to expand...
You can already test Stellaris vs other games. Open Stellaris and invade Earth in the relevant age with equal amount of armies, see how they get demolished.
 
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