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The king might have been Christnianized ("officially"...), but the people were certainly not Christian until generations later. The pagan believes lived on, side by side with Christianity and the some traditions have survived all the way until our days (what I'm thinking of now is julmaten
).
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
The king might have been Christnianized ("officially"...), but the people were certainly not Christian until generations later. The pagan believes lived on, side by side with Christianity and the some traditions have survived all the way until our days (what I'm thinking of now is julmaten
Ohh yes they were. At least in the core parts of the Kingdom(s) in Mälardalen and on the Östgöta & Västgöta slätterna. Though perhaps not in Jämtland, which was Norweigian back then.
/Greven
Jamtland was independent and Christian back then...
What I meant was actually being Christian, not just by name. I'll take an example of describing this: Erik Segersäll was baptized in Denmark, but when he returned to Uppsala again he still "blotade" at the Midvinterblot. This was of course before the timeframe of your game, but this continued a good while. Further, it was the core parts of the kingdom that was most addicted to the asatro. Not until the destruction of the old temple at Uppsala and building of the church on the same spot around 1141 one can say that this area was truly Christian.
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Italy didn't have that many merchant republics yet. Genoa for instance was not an independent commune at the beginning of the game, even if the city statues of 1056 gave it alot of autonomy. It was still formally under the rule of the Obertenghis, the Marchese of Liguria.
AFAIK the only major regions that will definately be out of the game are the Patrimony of St. Peter and Venice, even if Genoa is likely to fall into this group as well. There were also merchant-aristocrats in Pisa, the Amalfi and Sorrento. The two latter are pretty insignificant though.
The different religious domains present some problems as do the possesions of the House of Canossa. The religious domains were divided into Guelf and Ghibellines so I don't know how that will modelled in the game.
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Jamtland was independent and Christian back then...
What I meant was actually being Christian, not just by name. I'll take an example of describing this: Erik Segersäll was baptized in Denmark, but when he returned to Uppsala again he still "blotade" at the Midvinterblot. This was of course before the timeframe of your game, but this continued a good while. Further, it was the core parts of the kingdom that was most addicted to the asatro. Not until the destruction of the old temple at Uppsala and building of the church on the same spot around 1141 one can say that this area was truly Christian.
Oh yes... The population of Västergötland, Östergötland and Mälardalen was influenced by their Norweigian and Danish trade partners on a individual basis. There are lot of churches all over these areas springing back to the 1020's. There is a strong thesis around that the broader segment of the population was christian a lot earlier than 1141. What the royals did was much influenced by domestic policy- religion in the name of personal power and is not a good denominator IMHO.
When come to Jämtland. It might be so that the Jämtlänningarna viewed themselves independent AND that they de facto were independent, but still they grumblingly paid the norweigian tax collector my sources tells me.
/Greven
I think I can agree with this.
When come to Jämtland. It might be so that the Jämtlänningarna viewed themselves independent AND that they de facto were independent, but still they grumblingly paid the norweigian tax collector my sources tells me.
Jamtland was independent until 1178 and the battle on the ice outside Andersön when king Sverre of Norway defeated the jamtar (what is jamtar in English?). He then introduced the "Sunna-måle" - it was probably that tax you mentioned. Jamtland (also remember that Jamtland do not include Ragunda and Härjedalen) was then tied to Norway, but the ting at Frösön continued to govern the area which remained quite autonomous under Norwegian crown for centuries.
Then I bow to our local expert. Hmm...This means Jämtland is a free republic in 1066 after all....
/Greven
Well, the situation was quite awkward. Jämtland had close bounds to Norway due to the many Norwegians that settled in the region during late 9th and early 10th century. However religiously, Jamtland was a part of the Uppsala stift. Even when the Norwegians strengthened the bounds during the 12th Jämtland remained under the bishopry of Uppsala until 1570.
As for the "republic", Jamtland was divided into for "fjärdingar", each with meeting border in Frösön where the ting gathered yearly. After the Norwegian annexation, the power of the ting lived on until the 1400s (we're talking a vassal here).
As for the "republic", Jamtland was divided into for "fjärdingar", each with meeting border in Frösön where the ting gathered yearly. After the Norwegian annexation, the power of the ting lived on until the 1400s (we're talking a vassal here
).
Well, considering how they made Norway part of Denmark in EU1, and the first editions of EU2,just to simplyfy things, it would surprise me if they bothered to make Jæmtland independent.
Hmpf... That was very different from this game. I am still of the opinion. That Norway was a great power during the Medieval but more or less non-important 1500-1750, and then their importance started to grow again.
If you have heard of the game Svea Rike III then you can see that we do not underestimate Norway.
On Jämtland...It is my opinion that will be independent, though rather weak...
/Greven
If you have heard of the game Svea Rike III then you can see that we do not underestimate Norway.
On Jämtland...It is my opinion that will be independent, though rather weak...
/Greven
Originally posted by Greven
Hmpf... That was very different from this game. I am still of the opinion. That Norway was a great power during the Medieval but more or less non-important 1500-1750, and then their importance started to grow again.
If you have heard of the game Svea Rike III then you can see that we do not underestimate Norway.
On Jämtland...It is my opinion that will be independent, though rather weak...
/Greven
Will Sweden be divided between the three "rik" in CK, or shall it be considered as one kingdom?
Drakken
Originally posted by Wasa
What three "rik", Sveas, Götes and Vendes (Vännäs
Yes, for the first two at least. I don't remember the third one (damn memory)...
Drakken
Originally posted by Drakken
Yes, for the first two at least. I don't remember the third one (damn memory)...
Drakken
I think that once the swedes have established themselves in Finland, this part of could be a duchy (Österland)
Drakken: I think the Vendes means the Baltic provinces, called Wenden in German, in the beginning Wenden being the land later known as Pommerania
The Wends is a name of the Slavic people that lived in Northern Germany (Wenden) around the 7th century and onwards. During the Viking age the Danish ravaged, pillaged, looted etc and finally made that area a part of the Danish kingdom (Eu-vassals ), thus "Vendes konge" became a by-title to the Danish king.
During the mid 1500s when the Danish king adopted the Three Crowns and started calling himself "king of the Goths" too, the Swedish king answered by taking the title "king of the Wendes" (Vendes konung).
), thus "Vendes konge" became a by-title to the Danish king. During the mid 1500s when the Danish king adopted the Three Crowns and started calling himself "king of the Goths" too, the Swedish king answered by taking the title "king of the Wendes" (Vendes konung).
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
The Wends is a name of the Slavic people that lived in Northern Germany (Wenden) around the 7th century and onwards. During the Viking age the Danish ravaged, pillaged, looted etc and finally made that area a part of the Danish kingdom (Eu-vassals
During the mid 1500s when the Danish king adopted the Three Crowns and started calling himself "king of the Goths" too, the Swedish king answered by taking the title "king of the Wendes" (Vendes konung).
Not Vännäs then