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Koronus

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Apr 26, 2018
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Sorry if this question has been answered before as I could not found anything but I am confused because the Bavanid are considered another House in the Sassanid Dynasty meanwhile the description in the highlighted bookmark characters sound like they are Part of the Komnenos Dynasty. Or do I misunderstand something here?
 
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Sorry if this question has been answered before as I could not found anything but I am confused because the Bavanid are considered another House in the Sassanid Dynasty meanwhile the description in the highlighted bookmark characters sound like they are Part of the Komnenos Dynasty. Or do I misunderstand something here?
The connection is through a maternal line. Most houses in game are descended in a salic line from the dynasty's founder.
Sorry if this question has been answered before as I could not found anything but I am confused because the Bavanid are considered another House in the Sassanid Dynasty meanwhile the description in the highlighted bookmark characters sound like they are Part of the Komnenos Dynasty. Or do I misunderstand something here?
The connection is through a maternal line. Most houses in game are descended in a salic line from the dynasty's founder.
 
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The connection is through a maternal line. Most houses in game are descended in a salic line from the dynasty's founder.
Thank you. Can you also maybe elaborate on what is ment with the example for angelos text on that the success of the Komnenos is bound on brotherhood because it sounds for me more like that it is merely beeing cousings.
 
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Thank you. Can you also maybe elaborate on what is ment with the example for angelos text on that the success of the Komnenos is bound on brotherhood because it sounds for me more like that it is merely beeing cousings.
Because the kommenoi had pretty smooth succession, compared to the gap between them and the macedonians where you see routine coups and civil war.
 
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Thank you. Can you also maybe elaborate on what is ment with the example for angelos text on that the success of the Komnenos is bound on brotherhood because it sounds for me more like that it is merely beeing cousings.
"Brotherhood" here more familial connections and familial support rather than literally being brothers (though the literal meaning was also meaningful in the Komnenoi period. The Komnenoi were relatively stable for three generations and this was largely based on Alexios and Ioannes (though not so much Manouel) basically organizing the state around their family and managing the family's marriages and offices basically like a CK player would - to maximize family influence and loyalty in the state. Alexios' mother and brother and sons were all pivotal and crucial members of his administration in roles ranging from advisor to general. Likewise, Manouel and his various brothers were important officers under his father This familial organization and centralization of power was key to Komnenoi success, especially given the sizable backfoot that they started on.

. . . We don't talk about Andronikos I (different Andronikos) though, lol.

I think the description might also be quite a BIT (by which I mean A LOT) tongue in cheek.

Andronikos Angelos Doukas (the guy you are talking about) was originally one of the guys sent to squash the rebellion of Andronikos I (cousin of prior emperor Manouel I) shortly after the death of Manouel I (the power struggle after Manouel I's death is itself its whole own thing - it was a familial power struggle and bunch of stupidity within the late Komnenoi dynasty), who assumed power through his own shenanigans of basically stealing the throne out under his brother - but at least there was no fratricide or maiming! - he then went turn-coat and instead supported Andronikos I as he became Co-Emperor, but then when Andronikos went full mad tyrant he joined a conspiracy against him only for the plot wound up getting discovered, and so he fled to Baghdad where he was stayed under the hospitality of Saladin (yes, that Saladin) to avoid getting murdered by the VERY paranoid and stab happy and absolutely merciless Andronikos I, until he finally died in Acre around 1185. He was also the father of the next emperor, Isaac II Angelos, who succeeded Andronikos I after he - Isaac - was acclaimed Emperor by the people* in the popular deposition of Andronikos I after Andronikos I tried to arrest Isaac at the Hagia Sophia.

Thus he is the progenitor of the Angeloi dynasty. A dynasty is marked by familial squabbles. What kind of squabbles you ask? Well . . .

The first Emperor (Isaac II) was couped by his brother (Alexios III who styled himself Alexios III Komnenoi even though he was part of the Angeloi dynasty) in 1195 after about 10 years on the throne due to the rising unpopularity of Isaac II after multiple botched campaigns in the Balkans. Alexios III proclaimed himself emperor while Isaac II was out of Constantinople on a hunting trip, had his brother captured, blinded him, and then imprisoned him. Alexios II son, Alexios IV, was not touched but was smuggled out of the city in 1201 by Pisan sailors who took him to Pisa, where he then agitated and sought support for anyone who would be willing to help him reclaim his family's throne from his uncle. He was able to wind up convincing Boniface of Montferrat (who was brother of Renier Montferrat, who had been married to Maria Prophyrogenita, daughter of Manouel I, and had been killed by Andronikos I alongside his wife during his purge of the Manouel branch of the Komnenoi) to support his claim just as Boniface became an influential leader (because the prior leader, Count Thibaut of Champagne, just randomly, suddenly dropped dead at a young age) in a new crusade to take Egypt so that it could serve as a springbed for a following, future crusade to take the Holy Land again - this was the Fourth Crusade. They managed to conspire to hijack this crusade - which was its own huge mess, with the vast majority of the soldiery not even knowing that they were going to Egypt instead of the Holy Land, let alone that their leaders had hijacked this already convoluted crusade and that they were instead about to be redirected to siege, overthrow, and then loot the most venerable and splendorous city in the world - to siege Constantinople, where they easily landed, Alexios III fled the city on news that a new crusading army had arrived to install his nephew Alexios IV. Alexios II was freed and made emperor again, but the Crusaders demanded that Alexios IV also be elevated to co-emperor, which he was.

But the two Angeloi were unable to pay the Crusaders their promised price and after a bunch of shenanigans which included the Crusaders staying around the city for a lot longer than initially planned and the Angeloi increasingly unpopular with the denizens of the city (in large part because their reliance on the crusaders to maintain order and their power was seen as surrendering power to the Latins, who were already unpopular in the city due to a bunch of other historical stuff that had been building for like over a century at this point, and it didn't help that they were actively sacking Thrace every so often to help offset their costs) while Isaac II was actively spreading delegitimizing rumors about his own son because he was upset that he had to share his throne with his son and that his son was wielding more power and influence than him. This then led to a popular revolt where an obscure nobleman, Nicholas Kanabos, was acclaimed emperor by the crowd, but refused the crown. Meanwhile the rebellion led to the Angeloi barricading themselves in their palace and sending Alexios V Doukas, aka Alexios Doukas Murtzuphlus (not an Angeloi . . . yet), to go get the Crusaders to go capture and murder Kanabos and put down the rebellion, and instead he bribed the Varangians guarding the palace to arrest the emperors, and he then proceeded to have Alexios IV strangled while in prison and Isaac II died around the same time (likely murdered also, either by poison or some other means, though the actual cause is unknown and is sometimes attributed to his frail body failing due to the shock at the coup/his son's death also). Kanabos was then allegedly offered an office under by Alexios V, which he refused, then refused the multiple summons by the emperor, fled to the Hagia Sophia, and was dragged out and murdered at its steps. Alexios V then led the failed attempt to hold back the Crusaders, who would capture and loot Constantinople and carve up Byzantium into fiefs, creating what is now known as the "Latin Empire".

Alexios V, accompanied by Eudokia Angelina and her mother - daughter and wife of Alexios III, respectively - then fled on a fishing boat to a Thracian city where Alexios III had holed up with some troops and asked to be let in, where he was welcomed and married off to Alexios III's daughter, Eudokia Angelina - who he had helped escape alongside himself - and thus making him part of the Angeloi dynasty by marriage. But Alexios III would later betray Alexios V by having him captured, blinded and leaving him for the Crusaders as he - Alexios III - fled Thrace for Thessaly due to a Crusader advance against Byzantine Greece - the blind Alexios V was captured by the Latins who then gave him a mock trial for the crime of treason and killing his liege (Alexios IV), found him guilty, and executed him by throwing him off of the Column of Theodosius. Alexios III was eventually captured and imprisoned by the Latins (by Boniface specifically) and eventually ransomed off to his son in law Theodore I Laskaris, the Emperor of Nicaea (the Byzantine successor rump state in Western Anatolia). He then started conspiring against his own son in law because he was upset that he wasn't still emperor and wanted to take power over Laskaris and launched a rebellion against his own son in law where he even teamed up with the Sultan of Rum to this end, but Laskaris managed to miraculously beat them in battle (even more miraculously also managing to kill the Sultan in the process, causing them to have their own issues and buying him some room to breathe), and Alexios III was finally arrested and confined to a monastery until he died later that year.

Theodore Laskaris is also a funny guy. He was brother to Constantine Laskaris who MAY have been crowned emperor. During the sacking of Constantinople, after Alexios V had fled, a bunch of people and Varangian guard gathered in the Hagia Sophia, the two brothers nominated themselves, neither figure could get the acclamation necessary, and so lots were cast by the troops and Constantine wound up winning out. But also that may not have happened, and he may just have been offered the crown and refused it. Anyways, he allegedly tried to inspire a final stand in the Varangian guard who refused to do so. He then succeeded in fleeing the city with his brother Theodore in tow. They escaped to Nicaea where he secured the Anatolian holdings. But there is some doubt to this and it may be that Theodore was actually the one crowned.

ANYWAYS, the brothers fled to Bithynia and set up the Empire of Nicaea, a Byzantine rump state and one of three Byzantine successor rump states (alongside the Despotate of Epirus - founded by Komnenos Doukas branch of the Angeloi, and the Empire of Trebizond - founded by grandson of arch-kin-slaying-guy Andronikos I Komnenos, Alexios I Megas Komnenos - where coups and familial fighting and assassinations were endemic after the first several emperors, but especially after the 9th). It eventually managed to succeed in reclaiming Byzantium from the Latins, but at the last minute the Laskarids were basically couped by Michael Palailogos who blinded and imprisoned the child emperor (like 7 or 8 year old) John IV Doukas Laskaris and enthroned his own family as the Palaologos. The Palailogos would then go on to have nearly 2 centuries of their own fractious rule with lots of familial infighting and violence that resulted in the final end of the Byzantine Empire.

So yeah, probably the most comically fractious and discordant dynasty of Byzantium alongside the succeeding Palailogoi. The Komnenoi were at least initially stable before descending into infighting, but the Angeloi and Palailogoi just never settled down on their familial infighting.

*Long story short: Andronikos I, who already had a bad rep due to being paranoid and blood thirsty for crimes including murdering a bunch of aristocrats including a bunch of other Komnenoi including the previous emperor, the ruling child emperor (and his Co-Emperor) Alexios II Komnenoi (who, it should be noted, Andronikos I had previously made to sign the literal execution warrant of his own - that is to say, the child Alexios II's - mother), son of his cousin the previous emperor Manouel I, lost the city of Thessaloniki - the second most important city in the Empire, only eclipsed by Constantinople itself - to a Sicilian invasion which made him very unpopular among the people. He lashed out by trying to arrest another Komnenoi family member and potential rival for power - Isaac II - because he was paranoid about the people deposing him with Isaac, so Isaac fled to the Hagia Sophia where he was proclaimed Emperor by a large crowd of people. This then triggered Andronikos I to try to flee the city only to get noticed and captured before he could escape and was turned over to Isaac II who in turn turned him back over to the people to do with as they wished . . . where they then proceeded to publicly torture and murder the ever living heck out of him for several days straight
 
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