Why does title revocation have a tech requirement?

[LAF1994]

This is something that doesn't make sense. Revoking vassal titles requires Limited Crown Authority (apparently, without it you can't even seize land from imprisoned vassals for some reason) which is arbitrarily gated behind a tech that a lot of cultures don't have at start. So, apparently most rulers in 867 were intrinsically incapable of revoking the territory of rebellious vassals?

 

[InsidiousMage]

Because everything in the game is tech-locked and cultures are only allowed so many techs at the start of the game so not everyone is going to have it.* Cultures in 867 actually have a fairly wide variety of starting techs but this leaves certain cultures not having things like the ability to revoke titles** or able to recruit heavy infantry, something that has been around thousands of years before the start of the game. Its basically a flaw in the design of the game where there was a corresponding tech in each era that scaled up each age like increasing your MAAs, domain limit, and types of inheritance. AUH sounds like it might come with a major rework of how innovations works but who knows.


*I wouldn't be surprised if certain obvious tech that should be available aren't is a intentional choices of the devs to make things harder in a kind of arbitrary sense.

**If I remember correctly, French and Chinese culture at one point didn't start out with the ability to increase crown authority to revoke titles.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

Same reason certain european cultures dont have heavy cav in 1066 despite it being semi universal, artificial change from gamestart

 

[Tom The Viking YT]

Because everything in the game is tech-locked and cultures are only allowed so many techs at the start of the game so not everyone is going to have it.* Cultures in 867 actually have a fairly wide variety of starting techs but this leaves certain cultures not having things like the ability to revoke titles** or able to recruit heavy infantry, something that has been around thousands of years before the start of the game. Its basically a flaw in the design of the game where there was a corresponding tech in each era that scaled up each age like increasing your MAAs, domain limit, and types of inheritance. AUH sounds like it might come with a major rework of how innovations works but who knows.


*I wouldn't be surprised if certain obvious tech that should be available aren't is a intentional choices of the devs to make things harder in a kind of arbitrary sense.

**If I remember correctly, French and Chinese culture at one point didn't start out with the ability to increase crown authority to revoke titles.

Same reason certain european cultures dont have heavy cav in 1066 despite it being semi universal, artificial change from gamestart

I see both of my colleagues above explained it well, I would simplify the answer on your question LAF1994, I believe the devs wanted to make a fun game to play, not a game where you are overpowered from the start of each campaign. Making great games sometimes require thinking out of the box, implementing ideas which in our world wouldn't make sense, but for the game purpose they add extra layer of immersion or/and achievement to gain.

 

[InsidiousMage]

Making great games sometimes require thinking out of the box, implementing ideas which in our world wouldn't make sense, but for the game purpose they add extra layer of immersion or/and achievement to gain.

The problem with this though is that some cultures lack the ability to really, really basic stuff at the start of the in 867 when they really should be able to. Revoking titles shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted because it is such a basic game function. Like, tribal rulers have unrestricted access to tribal authority so they can revoke titles freely as long as they can maintain their tribal authority at tier three while some landed can't because they haven't unlocked a specific tech. Its not good game design, just random arbitrariness.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

The problem with this though is that some cultures lack the ability to really, really basic stuff at the start of the in 867 when they really should be able to. Revoking titles shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted because it is such a basic game function. Like, tribal rulers have unrestricted access to tribal authority so they can revoke titles freely as long as they can maintain their tribal authority at tier three while some landed can't because they haven't unlocked a specific tech. Its not good game design, just random arbitrariness.

I am not sure the assembly tech should allow tribes to upgrade the tribal holding to level 2.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I am not sure the assembly tech should allow tribes to upgrade the tribal holding to level 2.

It does but tribal rulers don't need to unlock the ability to reach max authority, they always have it. The only thing tribal rulers need to reach max tribal authority is time and prestige. Quoting the wiki . . .

Tribal governments have access to the Tribal Authority law and do not need innovations to increase it. The law has a starting cost of 200

Prestige.

 

[peteoj]

not a game where you are overpowered from the start of each campaign.

Lol. Lmao even.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

It does but tribal rulers don't need to unlock the ability to reach max authority, they always have it. The only thing tribal rulers need to reach max tribal authority is time and prestige. Quoting the wiki . . .

I know it does, but I am not sure it should. I think all tribal realms have plenary assemblies unlocked in 867 start.

 

[DeanTheDull]

I've made the case before and will say it again: CK3 would benefit from a 9XX start date that serves to let the feudal world start with all the core mechanic of the tribal era techs, while letting the tech game start with the era 2 techs.

As is, 867 means most people are locked behind major tech barriers for key mechanic dynamics (i.e. crown authority) to be reached in their first character lifetime (and thus before most games end), and 1066 means most everyone is beyond the era 2 / era 3 power increases that would reward a tech-game in a non-blowout sense.

 

[LAF1994]

I've made the case before and will say it again: CK3 would benefit from a 9XX start date that serves to let the feudal world start with all the core mechanic of the tribal era techs, while letting the tech game start with the era 2 techs.

As is, 867 means most people are locked behind major tech barriers for key mechanic dynamics (i.e. crown authority) to be reached in their first character lifetime (and thus before most games end), and 1066 means most everyone is beyond the era 2 / era 3 power increases that would reward a tech-game in a non-blowout sense.

But it doesn't make much sense why crown authority is tied to tech in the first place. IRL realms in 867 weren't intrinsically incapable of centralisation (if anything, the Carolingian kingdoms were less fragmented than 1066 France).

 

[InsidiousMage]

But it doesn't make much sense why crown authority is tied to tech in the first place.

Its because of the tech based progression system. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to press all of your claims, or even someone else's, from the start of the game but you can't because the way the devs made the tech system have tiered upgrades with each era. Same with the way you have to unlock "upgrades" to the de jure CBs. The progression based tech system feels it was added to the game because "that's how its supposed to work in a GSG" and the devs didn't put much thought into beyond that which leads to a lot of weirdness in the game.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

But it doesn't make much sense why crown authority is tied to tech in the first place. IRL realms in 867 weren't intrinsically incapable of centralisation (if anything, the Carolingian kingdoms were less fragmented than 1066 France).

I think maybe there should be more to crown authority levels than just an arbitrary prestige payment. 867 France should be in a better position to enforce crown authority 2 than 1066 France. Maybe, just like changing succession law, you either need the approval of your top 5 most powerful vassals, or else have a higher strength than the combined forces of dissenting powerful vassals, excluding allies on both sides.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The innovation system is very weird in multiple ways, like you need the innovation Gavelkind to unlock the confederate partition law, yet most realms have that as the default inheritance law already, even if they haven’t discovered the innovation yet.

I personally think that the innovation system is one of te most disappointing parts of the game. You will always be able to research all, non-culture specific innovations in your games, often before the end of an era.