So, german pzfaust and pzschreck have 10 accuracy - highest accuracy in game. On practice it leads to fact that german inf almost never misses, when firing with AT weapons. Are there any reasons why is that? IRL german AT weapons were pretty similar to allies in terms of accuracy and range. This fact also makes german inf with AT a bit OP.
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The german Panzerfaust just has a range of 150m and the Panzerschreck is only available in a special unit. There is no Panzergrenadier or Fallschirmjäger with a Panzerschreck. The Allies and Germans have their advantages and disadvantages, but in general the balance is fine.
The real at weapons were not pretty similar. The PIAT had just an effective range of 100m and the precision was terrible. Another fact is that the germans protected their tanks with
armored aprons what maked the allied heat weapons useless.
The real at weapons were not pretty similar. The PIAT had just an effective range of 100m and the precision was terrible. Another fact is that the germans protected their tanks with
armored aprons what maked the allied heat weapons useless.
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Well, this can be said about Pzfaust 60 too. It has only 60 m range and very primitive targeting.
Likely because they want them to be effective and in the game, if you miss your first shot you are likely insta-killed by the close range fire of tanks with multiple MGs.
So I'm pretty sure it's just a kludge fix to give German AT some sort of historical AT capability.
So I'm pretty sure it's just a kludge fix to give German AT some sort of historical AT capability.
I think allied tanks could have at least tiny chance to survive against german AT-teams. 10 accuracy turns these chances to 0 (if AT-team isn't panicked).
Technically, the chance to miss is 2.77%
Edit: Oh, and I think there is a range penalty in there somewhere, too.
You don't have panzerfausts problems when you throw infantry in front of your tanks anyway.
And even if you don't have any infantry around and push with armor, you should always have recon ahead of you to spot distant targets and hidden infantry.
There is nothing except bad play to explain hit by panzerfaust.
Technically, the chance to miss is 2.77%
When I said 'tiny' I didn't mean such low chances.
If I need any advices how to play I'll create new topic on forums.
I just explained to you it is very difficult for an axis player to sneak any infantry with 10 accuracy panzerfausts against a good player. Damn right it should be rewarded if it does happen.
Except the PIAT, which is absolutely awful, the other bazookas in the allied side are not that bad.
If you wanna avoid fausts, don't bring your armor so close to treelines, bring recon, move with infantry. You'll never have such problem again.
So, you think that allied player should not be rewarded for similar actions, right?
I think most allied decks are very strong with cheap infantry the way it is and most of them decks may add a lot of support fire from cheap armor too.
You don't wanna see the big picture in here and you argue panzerfausts are op when they just are when you play badly against them. Indeed they are deadly, when you get them to fire. Which is pretty much never against a player who knows what he is doing.
That is my point precisely.
So let's say when you get 3 or 4 armor within a town without infantry support, you should always get your ass insta-kicked with 3 or 4 deadly panzerfausts.
And when i throw one panther in close range against a sherman or do not respect my 1200m distance of engagement, i'll not bitch you kill my 280 panther in one shell. It did happen to me in my last game, insta kill of my new arrived panther against a firefly, but i did the mistake to bring it at 1000m. It is the game, it does not reward mistakes and you're able to make insta-kills. And it's why it's good.
And when i throw one panther in close range against a sherman or do not respect my 1200m distance of engagement, i'll not bitch you kill my 280 panther in one shell. It did happen to me in my last game, insta kill of my new arrived panther against a firefly, but i did the mistake to bring it at 1000m. It is the game, it does not reward mistakes and you're able to make insta-kills. And it's why it's good.
Say that to Luftlande or other german inf division.
Firefly has same engagement range (1200 m) and 16 AP is dangerous to any panther, so this is bad example.
Sure, i'll make a phone call to tell them.
It is very unlikely, firefly's have 11 frontal armor, panthers have 14 frontal armor, fireflys have 16AP, panthers 17AP. It is not like it is impossible on paper but if you let the panther fire the first shot at max range, he has more chance to kill your firefly in one shot than you the opposite in the same situation.
Firing against panthers frontally and at max range is never a good solution, at least not in 1 armor vs 1 armor.
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Yeah, seriously; 28% (D) or 17% (G) chance of penetration versus a 72% penetration at 1200m. And as a generalization, Panthers also tend to come sooner, at higher vet, and with better availability than the Firefly. The modest discount in price the Fireflies get doesn't even begin to make them equivalent units in open field tank vs tank warfare.
And as for the RPGs, Germans pretty much are advantaged in every way. They have more RPGs organically included in their line infantry, their RPGs are better (ACC 10 more than trumps 150m range), and their INF-tab units give up less to get them. (in terms of cost, strength, and armament)
This isn't necessarily a complaint; German domination of the open field tank battles and of RPG technology and deployment is OK as flavor as long as the divisions overall are balanced around it and the Allies get other advantages. A lot the comments in this thread are kind of misleading or bogus, though. Taken as a whole, there are significant advantages the Axis possesses in these fields.
And as for the RPGs, Germans pretty much are advantaged in every way. They have more RPGs organically included in their line infantry, their RPGs are better (ACC 10 more than trumps 150m range), and their INF-tab units give up less to get them. (in terms of cost, strength, and armament)
This isn't necessarily a complaint; German domination of the open field tank battles and of RPG technology and deployment is OK as flavor as long as the divisions overall are balanced around it and the Allies get other advantages. A lot the comments in this thread are kind of misleading or bogus, though. Taken as a whole, there are significant advantages the Axis possesses in these fields.
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Indeed and most german armor divisions are not advantaged in phase A to effectively conquest ground in infantry situations. They lack availability, in phase A you've many times two infantry per card that's all. Two panzergrenadiers with fausts = 110 points, 55 points each with their trucks, 35 points without (when you have this possibility).
The only armor deck to get more phase A panzergrenadiers is Hitlerjugend, you get the beute firefly/beute cromwell combo, some unvetted panzer G or vetted tigers in phase B and the real vetted panthers come in phase C. And now the 9th panzer but there is no panther at all in the deck.
And with german infantry decks, well your armor tab is limited to stug 3g (except some 300 points jagpanzers in phase C with 352nd).
Fausts are not op considering there are very few situations to make them work effectively, their power mostly depends on the common mistake to bring armor in the frontline with nothing to protect them from faust ambush. Which is something you see very often with a direct armor rush from the start most german players are now used to counter.
Honestly the accuracy differential between shrecks/fausts and bazookas/piats has more to do with weirdness than game balance to me.
you forgot the Panther D for the 12ss in phaseB. They are still better than most tanks the allies get.
That said. the High accuracy on german inf atw is hardly a problem. 150mm and 250m is pretty damn short range. The real problem is how crap the PIAT are.
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dude the pzshrek costs 30, bazooka costs 20 and a piat is worth 15. The allied weapons are much more cost effective. Or at least cheap And you can trade them with halftracks no problems.
And you can trade them with halftracks no problems.
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Cheap, yeah. More cost effective... probably not except for the Airborne/SSB variants.
An 'schreck will hit 92% of the time at 250m. An non-airborne bazooka, 58% at 200m. Non-airborne PIAT, 42%. In terms of price versus first shot hit chance at maximum range divided by price, they're almost identical, with a slight lead for the Panzershreck and the PIAT at the bottom of the pack. Shorter ranges favor the less accurate weapons, as does vet, so in general they're probably all pretty close with regards how much your point investment leads to landing that first hit.
(accuracy values derived from https://www.reddit.com/r/Steel_Divi...lculations_explained/?st=j8g95w34&sh=805fe786)
Overall, the best RPG teams are probably the Allied airborne PIAT, airborne Bazooka, and Commando Tank buster teams. The worst of them, the PIAT, is still a Bazooka with +1 accuracy and it gets better from there.
In second place, IMHO, is the Panzershreck despite that price tag. 50m extra range, best hit-to-cost ratio, some chance of hitting even when suppressed (but lower ROF), and the fact that it almost always hits means that you can buy one and know it reliably can kill a target that gets in range. This spares you the ugly decision of buying one and potentially missing and having an armored vehicle running free in your lines, or needing to buy two to reliably accomplish what a single 'shreck does reliably.
The non-Airborne Bazooka's in third place, though, and it's not chopped liver. It's got almost as good chance of hitting on the first hit relative to it's price and lower price investment so you can have more stuff.
In fourth place, non-Airborne PIAT. Worst hit-to-cost ratio and it even has AP 4 instead of AP 6, which presumably translates to less chance of accomplishing something when it does hit. It is the cheapest of the lot, but you're generally giving up way more than you're gaining even if you buy two of them to compensate.
By and large, the various AT teams are all pretty all right, except for the PIAT.
EDIT-
ZhukoDim suggests that all of my accuracy values are one row above where they ought to be in that results table. The examples in the linked URL seem to back him on that.
The impact of this is that 'shrecks are better than I thought they were, and PIATs worse, mostly. This doesn't change my final conclusions much, except that it ambiguates where I think some of the allied airborne RPG teams fall in relation to the 'shreck.
An 'schreck will hit 92% of the time at 250m. An non-airborne bazooka, 58% at 200m. Non-airborne PIAT, 42%. In terms of price versus first shot hit chance at maximum range divided by price, they're almost identical, with a slight lead for the Panzershreck and the PIAT at the bottom of the pack. Shorter ranges favor the less accurate weapons, as does vet, so in general they're probably all pretty close with regards how much your point investment leads to landing that first hit.
(accuracy values derived from https://www.reddit.com/r/Steel_Divi...lculations_explained/?st=j8g95w34&sh=805fe786)
Overall, the best RPG teams are probably the Allied airborne PIAT, airborne Bazooka, and Commando Tank buster teams. The worst of them, the PIAT, is still a Bazooka with +1 accuracy and it gets better from there.
In second place, IMHO, is the Panzershreck despite that price tag. 50m extra range, best hit-to-cost ratio, some chance of hitting even when suppressed (but lower ROF), and the fact that it almost always hits means that you can buy one and know it reliably can kill a target that gets in range. This spares you the ugly decision of buying one and potentially missing and having an armored vehicle running free in your lines, or needing to buy two to reliably accomplish what a single 'shreck does reliably.
The non-Airborne Bazooka's in third place, though, and it's not chopped liver. It's got almost as good chance of hitting on the first hit relative to it's price and lower price investment so you can have more stuff.
In fourth place, non-Airborne PIAT. Worst hit-to-cost ratio and it even has AP 4 instead of AP 6, which presumably translates to less chance of accomplishing something when it does hit. It is the cheapest of the lot, but you're generally giving up way more than you're gaining even if you buy two of them to compensate.
By and large, the various AT teams are all pretty all right, except for the PIAT.
EDIT-
ZhukoDim suggests that all of my accuracy values are one row above where they ought to be in that results table. The examples in the linked URL seem to back him on that.
The impact of this is that 'shrecks are better than I thought they were, and PIATs worse, mostly. This doesn't change my final conclusions much, except that it ambiguates where I think some of the allied airborne RPG teams fall in relation to the 'shreck.
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