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Why granada as a minor country ?

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unmerged(1531)

unmerged(1531)

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Mar 5, 2001
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Hi,

I have not understood why Granada is present with as an independant country in the game. It is supposed to be annexed in the very beginning of 1492, a feat difficult to reproduce in the game (it takes too much time to even get there from Toledo). Why not have it annexed already ? In the IGC, it would make another tag available.

As far as I know, the presence of Granada :

1. Forces Spain to annex a minor, giving it bad reputation in the Muslim world. That's OK for me.

2. It raises its BB value for annexing a minor, giving bad relation with the whole world, even the Papal States that promoted the Reconquista.

3. It diverts the player's attention from micromanaging Columbus during the war, allowing Portugal to discover America first (an outrage ! :) )

4. It may allow Granada to emerge through revolts faaar later into the game, am I wrong ?

I must be missing something ? What are the benefit of an independant Granada ? If it is 'only' historic veracity, it should be already besieged at the start of the game, ripe for a decisive assault...
 
In the scenario I made myself I did exactly that : start Granda already annexed by Spain. I just don't see the point in having a minor that will at most last a few months (unless u plan to play them)
 
1. Granada adds to the atmosphere. :)
2. Granada was still there, if only *very* short....
3. Spain has it already soooo easy. It *needs* some problems!
4. Whereas some of the minors in the game are mostly annexed within the first ten years, the often to be heard conclusion is wrong, that these countries don´t make a difference:
a) They don´t ALWAYS disappear, making the occasional exception to the rule more interesting.
b) The human player may decide to play one of those countries - an option he wouldn´t have otherwise.

There are some more reasons, but I think this suffices for the time being. :)

Hartmann
 
Originally posted by laurent Favre
BTW, with the new tech level for major in iGC, Granada is here for a real very brief time :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well, it is supposed to fall on the second day of the game. If I record correctly, Boabdil had already negociated the peace treaty at the end of 1491, it was the formal surrender that took place in 1492.

But Hartmann, you're right, Spain doesn't need to be helped much :)
 
Granada was introduced into the game at the last stages of the Beta testing. Mostly for the reasons you all figured out yourselves... decreasing spanish power a small bit... flavour... the nice opportunity for the Evil Player to declare Jihad and recreate Al-Andalús.

Allahu Akbar!!!!!

/Greven
 
Don't u actually give Spain an edge as it'll get quite some VPs for winning a war (which unless u play it should actually happen) ?

And BB wise, finishing the Reconquista IMO shouldn't have any influence on other European leaders.

Granada wasn't just any minor, it was bound to go.

Unless u wanna play it.
 
Maybe in the Improved IGC, Spain should start out having finished the Reconquista, but Granada should be able to come back into existence through revolt (I actually saw this happen once in a normal GC, but Granada was now Christian since one of its two provinces had been converted).
 
Granada has revolted well into the

game for me as well.

The funniest thing was when I didn't update a 1492 file and while running the IGC, I received a message in the second month that Ryazan had accepted peace on the condition of annexation by Spain! I said.. what the!!!??? But it was just a tag-error from an earlier IGC. Whoa.. I thought all hell was coming loose with EU!
 
I took out Granda from the start in my own modified game and used that war slot that opened up with that to set the starting war as the Ottomans versus Hungary. The Ottomans always win that war big time and always get at least 2 provinces and 250 D then, often 3 provinces. They still won't attack/expand much later (lame Ottoman AI, patches of 50 years without them waging any wars at all are very common in my games) but at least they got at least those 2 provinces then. This also makes Hungary considerably smaller and thus increases the chance for Austria vassalising/annexing Hungary later on, at least sizewise.
 
BiB, you can make more wars than one in the inc files. Have as many as you want. As for Granada, it does not weaken Spain. Granada is the most useless state in the game. If, in the IGC, you took away Tripolitania and Cyrenaica (!) you should have MUCH less of a qualm about useless Granada.
 
I read on here once that u couldn't exceed the given amount for diplomatic relations alrdeay used in the .inc so I figured that went for the wars as well. If it doesn't, well, that'd be great. As for Granada, I don't see the use to put in a country that last, should last a few months. I'd rather start of the game after the Reconquista is finished. I took out Cyrenaica and Tripolitania too btw and combined them with Tunisia.
 
You guys should read the Granada thread in the AAR forum. It perfectly illustrates why the inclusion of an independent Granada is a good thing - the possibility that a Moorish resurgence could cause major problems for Spain and a completely different look to the entire colonisation of the new world.

Surely this game is primarily about the creation of an Alternate History - the chance to re-write our own history books in a new and interesting way. If you just want accuracy and historical perfection you should be messing round with Encarta, not Europa...
 
But, really, really, Granada had no chance at all, historically. The Spanish have *whooped* them by Jan, 1492, and it was only a matter of a month or two. There was not really that much left of Granda.
 
Seeing as historically Granada fell to Spain at the very beginning of the Grand Campaign, I think it would be best to have Spain begin in possession of Granada, but to leave Granada as a possible revolter, modeling the correct historical situation of the time.
 
Again, guys, we're dealing with 'what if' scenarios in EU, not trying to faithfully re-create European History. What if, IRL, Granada had survived the Spanish onslaught? What if France had decided to abandon their years of hostility towards England and attacked Spain? What if Columbus had been kicked out of the Spanish court and had turned to Granada as his last possible hope for gaining the backing he needed? What if, what if, what if...

Alternate history, people, alternate history...
 
why granada..??

cause the Granada AI conquered Andalucia, Murcia, Extremadura and Oporto in my last game..

thats why.. france did really well, not supprisingly..
 
Someone way up there said that it delayes Columbus and the PORTUGUESE often discover the new world; as a side note, there's a LOT of speculation that Columbus was a Portuguese agent (He landed in Lisbon, as I recall). And the Portuguese and probably already landed in Brazil, secretly. But that's neither here nor there in the game. ;)
 
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