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i seriously never would have guessed that vehicle quality has anything to do with the pathfinding. That doesn't make sense in context of a city transit sim. I expected it would only affect your rating, and with a higher rating you could charge higher fares, but actually changing transit modes for a slightly more cushy seat? In real life i've gotten on subway trains that a drunk person puked on. I didn't get off the train and run for a bus, i switched cars on the same train! Who has time for that? I'll try making vehicle quality all the same next time i play and hopefully it makes some kind of difference.



One of the forgone premises of a transit simulation should be that the people who use the network know how to get around reasonably well. If the pathfinding algorithm is poor, the integrity of the whole game flies out the window. I really wish more time would have gone into polishing this fundamental aspect of the game. If nobody ever voiced their concerns, how would they know what to improve in future iterations? I genuinely want co and cities in motion to be successful, because nobody else is making games like this. Unfortunately knowing that my cims just randomly switch lines until they find themselves at their destinations provides no incentive to play the game. I will not buy a cim3 or any dlc's if i know the underlying simulation is poor.

fully agreed
 
Try tweaking the quality of service of the vehicles in the ruleset editor so that all of them are 100%. I did it in my cities, right now people don't leave metro to take tram at the same route or tram to take bus at the same route, their choice is METRO>TRAM>BUS.

Has anyone actually tried that?

In the ruleset editor I see for each type of vehicles and for all types of transport the value of 100%. So what? How can I make all be the same? If I change all to 1000% they will all have 1000% multiplied by their specific value, so they will still have different quality. If I put everything down to 0% they will probably all get the same quality which is zero, but then I'm afraid business people and tourist will never use my network.
 
In the ruleset editor I see for each type of vehicles and for all types of transport the value of 100%. So what? How can I make all be the same? If I change all to 1000% they will all have 1000% multiplied by their specific value, so they will still have different quality. If I put everything down to 0% they will probably all get the same quality which is zero, but then I'm afraid business people and tourist will never use my network.

No, the maximum possible quality for each vehicle is 100%, so if you change it to high value (I think 200% may be enough) then the quality of all of them is maximum, 100%.
 
Yeah, then the 100% is written in the vehicle description. But is the "real" quality, that, on what the CiM base their pathfinding, also on 100% ? I don't think so, because CiMs always will prefer the subway befor tram and the tram befor bus..
 
But that is the point. They SHOULD always prefer metro over tram over bus. What happens without the tweak is them leaving metro to go a few miles on a comfortable tram and then back to the metro. We are trying to avoid that.
 
But that is the point. They SHOULD always prefer metro over tram over bus. What happens without the tweak is them leaving metro to go a few miles on a comfortable tram and then back to the metro. We are trying to avoid that.

I've seen them doing this, but never after using this tweak. This is why I use it all the time now. :)
 
I think that is because the descripted strange behavior of our cims.
I see this a lot, when I run 2 lines parallel. The Lines go straight parallel, have the same stops and also the same vehicles .. nevertheless the cims change at the meeting point of the lines. Why, when they could reach their destination even without changing?!
 
Maybe they are all transport enthusiasts. Don't laugh, there are such people. For example, when visiting London, I may well change from the Circle to the District line of the Underground, which parallel each other over quite a distance, just so that I can tell myself: now I have been on both!
 
I think that is because the descripted strange behavior of our cims.
I see this a lot, when I run 2 lines parallel. The Lines go straight parallel, have the same stops and also the same vehicles .. nevertheless the cims change at the meeting point of the lines. Why, when they could reach their destination even without changing?!

Yep, this is the same issue I got to register here as well. This is very frustrating, as it overloads one route and makes pointless the other until that change. It makes all the lines where there are two or more routes very useless.

And besides, in real life if you wait on the stop, you wait for any of the routes that get you to your destination, especially if there is no need to have any changes in both of them. In the game sims only choose one of the routes ignoring the other, while they should wait for any of the routes.

And guys, reading this topic I got why loads of sims go like this:
weirdpaths-1.png


In this scheme they start in the left bottom point (in circle). And instead of taking the red line directly, they take a green line and then the orange line. VERY illogical, because the point where the green and orange lines cross is HOURS away from the starting point, and the passenger could reach the destination in that time.

Now I get why happens: because I have very comfortable small buses on the green line. :laugh: And these buses are always overload purely because of these transit passengers.
 
And besides, in real life if you wait on the stop, you wait for any of the routes that get you to your destination, especially if there is no need to have any changes in both of them. In the game sims only choose one of the routes ignoring the other, while they should wait for any of the routes.
Nope. I've got two bus routes that pass my "home" stop and have stops in the immediate vicinity of my work, but one line takes slightly longer (a matter of minutes) and is always overcrowded on the morning peak (it ends up at the college so is full of kids). Even if that one turns up first I will wait for a bus on the other line. :p
 
But well, if we'talking about that both routes go from the same stop and get to the same stop, you surely would wait for both in most cases? :p And this situation is very common in real life.

Another funny issue has been noticed right now.

There are two bus routs with the same types of vehicles, route A and route B, which are entirely different, except for the last two stops (stop 1 is the final stop, stop 2 is the previous stop). The last stop is a cross to tram which gets to the centre, so almost everyone is going there. And the funny thing that at stop 2 most of the passengers of route A get out to take the route B to get to stop 1, and the passengers of Route B do the same with route A!!! :lol: I mean, REALLY, that's what you do every time to get to work. And I repeate, both are bus routes with same vehicle types.
 
Again, maybe You shouldn't treat CiMs like they were real people? They are just CiMs! Thinking what would You do in similar situations in a real life is a road to nowhere. When You play old good Lemmings, you don't complain, that the creatures are crazy suicidal-walkers and You wouldn't jump down the cliff. You just try to prevent them from total annihilation. When You play Cities in Motion just try to remember, that You transport CiMs. Yes, CiMs, not a real people! So the first step is to know their customs. When You know it, CiMs are very predictable. Then try to exploit the knowledge. Good luck!
 
When You play old good Lemmings, you don't complain, that the creatures are crazy suicidal-walkers and You wouldn't jump down the cliff. You just try to prevent them from total annihilation. When You play Cities in Motion just try to remember, that You transport CiMs.
Are you suggesting that CiMs have comparable IQ to good old Lemmings? I think Lemmings would feel very offended if they heard this! ;)

ALSO (I'LL SAY IT AGAIN): CHANGE THE QUALITY OF ALL VEHICLES IN RULESET TO 300%. IT REALLY MAKES CIMS MUCH SMARTER!!! Explanation above in this thread.
 
It is nice, that you can imagine a szenario in which you CiMs is an entire new species of public transport lovers. But you shouldn't. CiM has the claim to be a simulation. And in a simulation I am trying to portray the real world as best as I can. An with this background, every complainment about unrealistic (As long as it isn't a conceptual change for simplification) behavior in the game should be allowed. Because fking bad path finding isn't a "design choice".
 
Sotrax said:
It is nice, that you can imagine a szenario in which you CiMs is an entire new species of public transport lovers. But you shouldn't.

Well, I'm afraid I have no choice :) And, to be honest, I like it! Really! As I've said before, now we have a compromise between simulation and playability. Very wise compromise :D Every map is something like sudoku puzzle or crossword puzzle BASED ON the public transport issue, where You have to find the best resolution. Try to look at the Cities in Motion this way and You will easy find it as a brilliant game, even if it is not the strict simulation of real world.
 
Im sure IBM is developing or already have a simulation of transport public that is very accurate to the reality as you guys want. In this software it probably exist transport lovers as gsandi said, and people that want to avoid vehicles with too many students as slornie said, old people that will prefer comfortable vehicles and have all the time in the world to wait and disabled people that will only ride specific buses and normal people that would get the one that drives them as fast and cheapest as possible. All possible to program but not sure a computer can run it or that it will be sold as a game.

I said IBM because they are in a lot of cities providing their smart cities program, which includes several services depending on the city and public transport is key. For sure they are gathering data on people behavior on public transportation.

One can dream.
 
Are you suggesting that CiMs have comparable IQ to good old Lemmings? I think Lemmings would feel very offended if they heard this! ;)

ALSO (I'LL SAY IT AGAIN): CHANGE THE QUALITY OF ALL VEHICLES IN RULESET TO 300%. IT REALLY MAKES CIMS MUCH SMARTER!!! Explanation above in this thread.
I did that but I don't get how the rulesets work. You have to *save* the ruleset as a file, how can I apply this ruleset to the actual game/city, or is it applied automatically? Thank you in advance!
 
I did that but I don't get how the rulesets work. You have to *save* the ruleset as a file, how can I apply this ruleset to the actual game/city, or is it applied automatically? Thank you in advance!

1. You have to create your ruleset in the ruleset editor, found under 'tools' in the start menu. You must give it a name to be able to save it.
2. Apply your named ruleset to a new city when first created in 'sandbox'. (You cannot apply it to an existing saved city.)
3. You cannot change what ruleset is applied to a city, but you can freely edit your named ruleset in the editor. Any changes made will be applied to your city next time it is opened.

I have only one saved ruleset named 'current' that I apply to all my cities. This is freely edited any time I feel the need.
 
3. You cannot change what ruleset is applied to a city, but you can freely edit your named ruleset in the editor. Any changes made will be applied to your city next time it is opened.
Not all changes can be made after the start of a map. For Example the population or private car ownership or the time setting is not changeable after starting a map. But everything that has to do specific with the vehicles and the stops/depots can be changed afterwards.