If i had known...
How many gears does an italian tank have?
1 Neutral
5 Reverse
i think is not true to give 1/4 morale less to the army and increasing national dissent, we can't simulate public opinion on the past choises, the events could be very different from reality.General di tuti said:err no? this is a game AND a historical simulation.
you can change history but you'll have to work with reality, and reality provided the italian army with poor leadership, ill organisation and a lack of proper mentality. you can't just change that.
avoid stupid tellingvon_Manstein11 said:watch out for the big bad Italian army
How many gears does an italian tank have?
1 Neutral
5 Reverse
I haven't played this mod but I just have to comment on this. The player should definately be able to influence these things, replacing poor leadership with better one and organizing the army better. Mentality is more difficult to influence, but it can be affected too, and in the three years that the player has before the full-scale war starts, the player should be able to fix most of these things.General di tuti said:err no? this is a game AND a historical simulation.
you can change history but you'll have to work with reality, and reality provided the italian army with poor leadership, ill organisation and a lack of proper mentality. you can't just change that.
Haukionkala said:I haven't played this mod but I just have to comment on this. The player should definately be able to influence these things, replacing poor leadership with better one and organizing the army better. Mentality is more difficult to influence, but it can be affected too, and in the three years that the player has before the full-scale war starts, the player should be able to fix most of these things.
Cerber said:As someone mentioned it`s not only a game but also historical simulation.
But if we stop at the "historical simulation" why play the game with a nation of the axis knowing their final historic defeat?I want to change history if possible in a game.
There is a discussion about it in Stony road forum, read it please.Lokey said:I realize that at first glance, Italy may appear to have been penealized more severly than it indeed does deserve. However, as a student of history and political science, I get to read a large amount of interesting books (boring ones as well, but thats not my point), I recently came across a book called "Hitler's Italian Allies." A military, socio economic study of the italin war effort. A topic it attempted to give an overview of. The situation can only be refered to as Fawlty Towers staring john cleese as Mussolini.
To manage a industrialized society, you need educated people, in 1931-Italy still had 20,9% illiteracy rating. By 1951, it was still at 12,9%
By comparison, it was all but wiped out in germany by 1900.
As for Industrial capacity, 42% of the german workforce was in the industrial, and in italy slightly less than 30%. The major difference however was output.
Germany industrys share of the national product had passed that of agriculture in 1890, whereas Italy only reached the desicive benchmark in 35-40 and slipped back in 1941 and after.
During the war, the Italian armed forces only got 23% of the gross national product.... How is that for a "total war."
Leading up to and during the war, most of the armaments industry was occupied with fraud, and illigal cartels, to svindle the state for the largest amount possible.
The absence of any kind of modern millitary culture, except for to a degree in Piedemont was depressing. In the words of one of the leading army historians: "Italy has never seemed well-inclined toward arms...In reality one must admit that italy has never been well-inclined towards the state, whatever its leadership." The large pesant class, dislikeing authority, and holding no allegiance except to his family and the land of his ancesters, make poor conquerers. A hopeless and fatalistic stubborness to any kind of modernization, can still be seen today in italy.
A national research concil, under the general staff was responsible for directing millitary-industrial research. But it concentrated on autarchic nostrums such as the cultivating of guyule bushes, imported form the US, as a rubber substitute. Potentialy vital research such as radar and Enricion Fermis nuclear work(before he imegrated to the Us, due to the racial laws) were not prominent on its agenda.
This and 200 pages more, give good reason for why Italy should be penalized.
Come on, Hitler offered the prints, and technicians to make the panzer 3&4, and FIAT refuesed. HE GAVE THEM FOR FREE!
The low moral bit, is quite understandable, when the massive amounts of soldiers surendered in Africa, almost without seeing combat.
Winston Churchil referd to the RAF pilots with the phrase: "Never has so much been owed to so few.
Anthony Eden, the foreign secretary refered to the surrendering Italians in Africa with a pun on Churchills phras: Never has so many surrendered to so few."
THAT IS WHY ITALY IS PENALIZED, BECAUSE THEY DESERVED IT!!!!!!!!!!
tinello176 said:Cerber said:As someone mentioned it`s not only a game but also historical simulation.
But if we stop at the "historical simulation" why play the game with a nation of the axis knowing their final historic defeat?I want to change history if possible in a game.
It is historical that the italian army performed bad when they engaged an
enemy. They performed bad against ethiopia, they performed bad against the british, they performed bad against the americans and they performed bad against the german. Only the special forces ( nembo,ariete... ) and later some RSI units were good fighting units. Of course all lacked material and supply but thats not the only reason ( I think ethiopia lacked even more... ).
Nevertheless I like playing them.![]()
Anazagar said:Always thought it was bout teh french one. And by the way:
How many French you need to defend Paris against Germans??
Nobody knows as no one has ever tried.
loki1232 said:Well i mean I don't see why the italian army can't reform.
I mean isn't that waht the Soveits did to beat the germans?
Anazagar said:Always thought it was bout teh french one. And by the way:
How many French you need to defend Paris against Germans??
Nobody knows as no one has ever tried.