Wiki?

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

Does CK2 have a wiki or something that I could peruse? There's a lot of changes here-- to the point where the official CK2 wiki is all but useless for it.

Where can I learn more?

 

[LordPeter]

Ask
I'm afraid there is none, but you can get all the info here.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

Drat. Okay, I'm looking for specific information on the new varieties of Paganism introduced in CKII+, such as Nordic. If Nordic is simply the new Germanic, then what about that one spot of Germanic paganism in Germany? Where are the holy sites of the CKII+ Germanic pagan faith?

Additionally, with the new increased cost of having troops, is there any way to make a profit off of raiding? I can't seem to get more than it costs just to have my demesne troops up and active. Raiding seems high-risk, low-reward, and yet it seems the only way for Nordic Pagans to survive (outside of Jorvik, which actually has a decent economy).

There is a lot of information I am looking for.

 

[LordPeter]

Drat. Okay, I'm looking for specific information on the new varieties of Paganism introduced in CKII+, such as Nordic. If Nordic is simply the new Germanic, then what about that one spot of Germanic paganism in Germany? Where are the holy sites of the CKII+ Germanic pagan faith?

Essentially it is just a second branch of Nordic, mostly cloned. It's there to better represent the division that existed between Scandinavia and say Saxony.
I don't know about special features, as I haven't played it, but holy sites you can easily see when clicking on a Germanic realm in religion map mode.

Additionally, with the new increased cost of having troops, is there any way to make a profit off of raiding? I can't seem to get more than it costs just to have my demesne troops up and active. Raiding seems high-risk, low-reward, and yet it seems the only way for Nordic Pagans to survive (outside of Jorvik, which actually has a decent economy).

Yeah troop cost has gone up.
Only way to raid with profit is to use your vassals' troops
Maybe that needs some balancing, now that you bring it up, because it should be profitable also with your own.
Also never raid your undeveloped neighbours. Tribals give just too little money. Only ever raid Feudal realms.

There is a lot of information I am looking for.

What else?

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

Essentially it is just a second branch of Nordic, mostly cloned. It's there to better represent the division that existed between Scandinavia and say Saxony.
I don't know about special features, as I haven't played it, but holy sites you can easily see when clicking on a Germanic realm in religion map mode.

That's the thing-- when I did that, it showed the Slavic holy sites. Are Germanic and Slavic holy sites supposed to be the same?

Yeah troop cost has gone up.
Only way to raid with profit is to use your vassals' troops
Maybe that needs some balancing, now that you bring it up, because it should be profitable also with your own.
Also never raid your undeveloped neighbours. Tribals give just too little money. Only ever raid Feudal realms.

So a Count level chief (living in say, Fareyar, Orkney, Trondelag, Iceland, or any other place not named "Jylland", "Sjaelland", or "Mann" is just what, auto screwed? I mean, you can't raid with vassal troops if you don't have any.

What else?

I'd like to know what other things were changed in this mod. I can't find the information in any organized location.

 

[LordPeter]

That's the thing-- when I did that, it showed the Slavic holy sites. Are Germanic and Slavic holy sites supposed to be the same?

Ah, no.
You were clicking on that one realm that is Germanic yes? It's ruler is Slavic though, so it shows the holy sites for Slavic.

Maybe ruler designer yourself as Germanic and check this way? Or use the "shatter realms" option if you don't have Ruler Designer. I don't have time to play right now so you'll have to check yourself
I think the Germanic sites are mostly the same as the Nordic ones IIRC, with only one or two being different.

So a Count level chief (living in say, Fareyar, Orkney, Trondelag, Iceland, or any other place not named "Jylland", "Sjaelland", or "Mann" is just what, auto screwed? I mean, you can't raid with vassal troops if you don't have any.

From my experience, yes raiding is hard (trending towards useless) with 1 county pagans. I do find 1 county pagans to generally be hard to play, though. You are pretty much static until you can aquire a duchy.
You can raid, if you have luck and a really rich county is undefended, but mostly I would stay home and get a duchy first. No actually I would start as a duchy tbh :/

You can monitor this some more, and maybe suggest to the devs to balance that a bit.
Maybe a modifier to troop maintenance as a realm with no vassals, if you are only raiding and not at war?

I'd like to know what other things were changed in this mod. I can't find the information in any organized location.

...from the main page (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ck2plus.799383/) here:

Main Features
- A completely overhauled factions system -- rather than solely having factions which go to war with their liege as soon as they are strong enough, there are also "common interest" factions which consist of vassals who meet regularly and can reward a liege who's kept them happy or make demands of a liege with whom they're angry...and who can start a civil war if their liege doesn't comply. These civil wars can be incredibly dangerous, as other factions can join in the war if the liege is unpopular. More information on how these factions work is available here.

- A cadet system for younger brothers of very large dynasties to establish their own dynasties if they should ever inherit a title. Likewise, powerful rulers who are part of very large dynasties but who not the head of that dynasty (and not closely related to him) may elect to start their own -- particularly if they are Muslim and part of a very decadent dynasty.

- A more logical system for adventurers -- adventurers will travel around to nearby kingdoms, attempting to raise money from sympathetic rulers and by campaigning in lands. Only if they raise sufficient funds will they be able to form a host, and the size of the host will depend on the amount of coin they raised as well as their individual prowess. A deceptive ruler may attempt to take their captive when they arrive and offer you them to you in exchange for a hefty ransom.

- A coronation system, which requires feudal kings and emperors to hold a coronation -- an event which invites not only vassals but nearby independent rulers and relatives -- which will solidify their rule. Until they are coronated, weak claims can be enforced against them and their Crown Authority can not be increased.

- A new tyranny system similar to EU: Rome. Kings cannot wantonly revoke titles, imprison, banish or execute subjects any more without incurring Tyranny. The "Tyrant" trait lowers relationships with everyone and in turn makes it more likely for vassals to revolt, and sufficiently high tyranny can cause a "dynastic stain" which is passed on to descendants.

- A unique map with many more provinces and territories, along with a revamped setup for de jure kingdoms and empires. One thing experienced players will immediately notice is the scarcity of de jure empires -- most empires are formed as titular titles first, and gain de jure territory through the course of the game.

- A revamped system of demesne laws. Crown Authority has also been changed, having the effects of the vanilla Centralization law folded into it while simultaneously making it more difficult to raise (requiring a certain prestige score). Kingdoms and empires require a medium level of Crown Authority in order to enforce their de jure claims.

- Changing of Crusade/Jihad mechanics to more accurately and fairly represent large-scale holy wars. Winning a crusade/jihad results in the de jure kingdom of the war's target being created (e.g.: a successful Crusade for Jerusalem results in the Kingdom of Jerusalem being created and awarded to the victor), as well as the institution of a special truce to help Crusader states survive more than a few years.

- Adds a greater list of ambitions and plots, including: "Get a lover", "Break out of prison", "convert a province", "win a war", etc.

- A completely revamped set-up for the historical transition between Charlemagne and the Carolingian Empire to the Holy Roman Empire, with events allowing for this to occur even with the AI at the helm (or in a completely ahistorical manner). The de jure set-up for the Holy Roman Empire has also changed, with the former kingdom of Germany broken up into its individual "stem duchies" while under Holy Roman rule.

- The Mongol Empire, when it appears in the game, does so as a single empire -- and breaks up into the Ilkhanate and the Golden Horde (and possibly even the Chagatai Horde) if and when it's at a sufficient size and its ruler dies...just as the Mongol Empire did historically. This horde is a much greater threat than it exists as under vanilla mechanics.

- Expanded mechanics for female heirs and rulers. Women can now have their claims enforced by war even on agnatic titles, can have a martial trait which allows them to lead armies (though only in certain cultures, or at certain levels of gender law), and have special versions of some events (such as hunting and tournaments) which apply only to them.

- Changing succession laws requires prestige, and can cause anger not only among your vassals but particularly among those who find themselves disinherited as a result of the change. Some laws, like Feudal Elective or Tanistry, require the agreement of your vassals in order to change them at all.

- While tribal rulers cannot build new holdings normally, they will have pious characters sometimes ask to found a temple with their support. Their steward may also use the "Settle Tribe" ability in provinces of their culture to find a site for a new city -- which will require support and many years to build.

- The ability to disinherit an heir -- though an angry former heir may take arms against you, if he can find support.

- Expanded events for pagans, including new pagan religions such as Celtic and Ancient Egyptian -- many of which were adapted from the Ancient Religions mod.

- A "Shattered Realm" function, useable at the beginning of any game, which allows you to break up every kingdom or even duchy in the world and start everyone at the same level. It also has a function which allows you to change the world's starting religion set-up, making pagans dominant in many areas and all but removing Christianity entirely.

- Many new additional start dates, focusing on characters and periods throughout the era.

- A host of improvements for the AI, insofar as how they run their realms and how they use the existing events and wars a little more intelligently.

- A myriad of other new events and decisions, many of which are too minor to list here and also many of which are fixes for vanilla bugs or revisions of vanilla events & decisions to improve their function in the game.

These are indeed the main changes. There are lots more, but they are mostly small and unintrusive.

 

[Rylock]

Raiding can be quite profitable -- if you are targeting feudal provinces that are fairly rich. I find that a developed temple or especially a city can reap huge rewards. If you decide to raid poor Ireland because it's easy pickings, it's not going to get you very much.

But you do need to be able to afford the troops, of course. Thankfully you have access to a councillor action which can get you free troops for raiding.

So, in my experience, it's fine. Raiding should not be an auto-win that automatically grants you mega-cash no matter who you are or who you target.

 

[LordPeter]

But you do need to be able to afford the troops, of course. Thankfully you have access to a councillor action which can get you free troops for raiding.

Right!
I almost forgot about that action. Yes, with the free raiders you can do it quite well - you can even abuse the other free troop types for raiding if you are quick enough ^^

Guess there's no need for balancing then.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

The problem with the councilor action is that it has about a 3% yearly chance of rallying anyone, assuming you have a decent councilor. Your prestige will be deep down in the negatives for going too long without raiding, and even without raiding, you have a monthly economy in the negatives and an anemic starting balance.

I mean, I suppose I could be wrong, but I don't feel like playing as a Norse pagan should be pretty much an automatic lose condition like it is now in this mod.

Actually just put the cost of demesne troop deployment back the way it was in vanilla and that should be pretty much ideal.

I love a lot of the things this mod does-- the new list of ambitions, the ability to disinherit, the new religions. I just wish that demesne troops hadn't become less-effective-but-more-expensive mercenary units.

 

[Rylock]

Playing a Norse pagan isn't an automatic lose condition.

In this particular case, I've played them quite successfully -- and been able to raid profitably, so long as I'm careful. So, no, I doubt we'll be making demesne troops cheaper just for that.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

Then there must be some hidden mechanic I am not aware of. My raiders were in a territory where there was loot to be had, but I was losing gold for having them active faster than they were loading it onto the boat. No, the loot was not protected by a fort.

 

[Kalista]

Then there must be some hidden mechanic I am not aware of. My raiders were in a territory where there was loot to be had, but I was losing gold for having them active faster than they were loading it onto the boat. No, the loot was not protected by a fort.

Couple things there. Minimum number of troops to loot a province is 500 without taking penalties using vastly more than that isn't advisible. If you are aiming to use more troops than that ( in which case you aiming to pilliage the holdings) its smart to pick a target with rich holdings who is engaged in a war so you might get enough time to bring the holdings down ( or ones weak enough they can't raise an army to hit back) .

 

[Pleonast]

If you are aiming to use more troops than that ( in which case you aiming to pilliage the holdings) its smart to pick a target with rich holdings who is engaged in a war so you might get enough time to bring the holdings down ( or ones weak enough they can't raise an army to hit back) .

The AI is certainly proficient enough to take advantage of my holdings when I'm fighting a war overseas.

 

[LordPeter]

Then there must be some hidden mechanic I am not aware of. My raiders were in a territory where there was loot to be had, but I was losing gold for having them active faster than they were loading it onto the boat. No, the loot was not protected by a fort.

As many people here have pointed out, it is possible, just not easy atm.

I am toying with the idea of adding a modifier for reduced-raiding-army-maintenance to one of my submods; but that would mean I would have to update them, which sadly I have no time for atm. But it might come sometime (and you could use it as a submod then).
In the meantime, deal with it