Will Paradox consider streamlining their DLC business model for future games?

[Lys91]

You may have noticed that Paradox have changed their PR strategy recently(-ish). They are calling the big DLC extension and the other DLC. That make sense and that may stop people whining. DLC is for useless cosmetic stuff and expansion change gameplay. Short on money? Don't buy fancy clothes for your French soldiers...

 

[Maarten99]

You may have noticed that Paradox have changed their PR strategy recently(-ish). They are calling the big DLC extension and the other DLC. That make sense and that may stop people whining. DLC is for useless cosmetic stuff and expansion change gameplay. Short on money? Don't buy fancy clothes for your French soldiers...

Any link ? As far as I know, Way Of Life was still called a DLC.

 

[PrinceCola]

It would be nice if they made bigger DLCs instead of tons of small ones.


And i would buy season pass if it was possible

 

[Johan]

It would be nice if they made bigger DLCs instead of tons of small ones.


And i would buy season pass if it was possible

I really dislike season passes. Expansions slip, change in scope etc..

 

[omega20056]

It would be easier if all of the small DLCs were combined into packs. This was done for El Dorado I believe, which had the main DLC and then a content pack that included the new music, models, ect. If you merged the smaller CK2 and EUIV DLCs together into something like Crusader Kings II: Face Pack or EUIV: Music Pack, it wouldn't look so daunting to new players.

 

[Lys91]

Any link ? As far as I know, Way Of Life was still called a DLC.

Look at the com they did for Cities Skylines and how they called CK2 EU4 DLC "extansions and DLC etc...". Maybe should ask a question in the PI subforum, but they seem to be making change to their PR speech.

 

[mario1789]

Season passes sound like a great idea.

Would people prefer a subscription. Just sign up and don't be bothered with the hassle of having to manually buy each DLC - for those that know they'll be getting every single one? subscribing might give you a discount or other special bonus?

/shams

I would buy a season pass, no question--though I may be a minority? Budget on games isn't really a concern for me--avoiding a time investment in a mediocre game is a much bigger concern. I kind of trust Paradox releases things I will enjoy?

 

[Pugmak]

I might be the odd duck but I like the system as it is now.

I like the companies that make things I enjoy to make money so they'll keep making things I enjoy. I also like the DLC system because then I can pick and choose what parts or pieces I want to spend my own money on.

 

[DPKdebator]

Personally, I mostly prefer the expansion DLC, except for sales (I got EU4 Digital Extreme Edition, Conquest of Paradise, and the Pre-Order pack for about $16), so bundles would be good. Perhaps they could be organized in the categories of expansion (and possibly also mini-expansion?), music packs, and unit packs? That way, people that like a specific type of DLC can get them all in one bundle, and thus save money.

 

[Weijun]

Bundling the cosmetic DLC (like EU IV El Dorado) is a good idea. What might also help would be a simple numbering system, (e.g. instead of El Dorado, it would be DLC 5: El Dorado). It would make it relatively easy to find the newest content (or sort the list, for that matter). It would make the content of cosmetic bundles clearer, too, e.g. "Units: 1-4" or "Units & Music 1-5."

 

[Candacis]

As a new user with only the vanilla base game and little to no knowledge of the game, I agree that the current way how the dlc's are displayed is intimidating and not very encouraging to buy a dlc. I have seen looooads of threads of new players asking which dlc's they should get. I was searching for an answer to this question myself. If the dlc's were presented a little bit better, would have better descriptions, then maybe that question would not get asked so much.
What is most important to new players are ways to recognize the big dlc's (or expansions). Kind of like the must-haves or the next thing you should buy, if you like the base game. Every big expansion should be easily recognizable and if I'm looking at the first one, or the fifth etc. For instance, the dlc main picture could have a color-coded frame or symbol that tells me, if this is a big expansion. This should be in the tooltip as well.

A bundle would also be nice to have in steam. I would like to see a bundle like, the first three major expansions in one, marketed as an expansion bundle I for new players that want to explore more.
I would not buy a season pass or a subscription. Mainly because I don't know the game very well yet and don't know, how much money I want to spend on it. Just a way to navigate better through the dlc jungle is all I ask.
And I'm sorry, but the 144,99€ Collection is so off-putting. I think, this collection hurts more than it does good. I would delete that and put in a Collection with only the base game + major expansions instead.

 

[Wagonlitz]

As a new user with only the vanilla base game and little to no knowledge of the game, I agree that the current way how the dlc's are displayed is intimidating and not very encouraging to buy a dlc. I have seen looooads of threads of new players asking which dlc's they should get. I was searching for an answer to this question myself. If the dlc's were presented a little bit better, would have better descriptions, then maybe that question would not get asked so much.
What is most important to new players are ways to recognize the big dlc's (or expansions). Kind of like the must-haves or the next thing you should buy, if you like the base game. Every big expansion should be easily recognizable and if I'm looking at the first one, or the fifth etc. For instance, the dlc main picture could have a color-coded frame or symbol that tells me, if this is a big expansion. This should be in the tooltip as well.

A bundle would also be nice to have in steam. I would like to see a bundle like, the first three major expansions in one, marketed as an expansion bundle I for new players that want to explore more.
I would not buy a season pass or a subscription. Mainly because I don't know the game very well yet and don't know, how much money I want to spend on it. Just a way to navigate better through the dlc jungle is all I ask.
And I'm sorry, but the 144,99€ Collection is so off-putting. I think, this collection hurts more than it does good. I would delete that and put in a Collection with only the base game + major expansions instead.

It doesn't matter which number the expansion was. The way Paradox make their games you can play with say the base and the fifth expansion, with the base and the fourth and second expansion, etc.

Of the top of my head the expansions are (I am trying to list them in the order they were released):
Conquest of Paradise
Wealth of Nations
Res Publica
Art of War
El Dorado

 

[Candacis]

Now I'm confused. Are those Crusader Kings 2 expansions? I was talking about Crusader Kings II and those names are unfamiliar to me.

 

[Weijun]

It doesn't matter which number the expansion was. The way Paradox make their games you can play with say the base and the fifth expansion, with the base and the fourth and second expansion, etc.

This is true. I still have no intention of buying Sunset Invasion. Keeping track of the cosmetic DLC is a pain, though. In particular, keeping track of cosmetic DLC bundles is pain. What does the CK II DLC pack contain? Which ones does it not have? Does this bundle on sale have enough of the DLC that I want that it does not matter that I am re-buying a few units? A numbering system like "Units and Portraits 1-5" would sure make it easier. Then I would know at a glance that it does not include 6, 7, and 8 (whatever the cosmetic DLC for RoI, CM, and WoL is).

 

[Weijun]

Now I'm confused. Are those Crusader Kings 2 expansions? I was talking about Crusader Kings II and those names are unfamiliar to me.

No, those are the major DLC for Europa Universalis IV. It does not have quite as much DLC as CK2, but considering that it is Paradox's flagship game, it may well surpass CK2 in content over time.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Now I'm confused. Are those Crusader Kings 2 expansions? I was talking about Crusader Kings II and those names are unfamiliar to me.

It is for EU4. Nowhere in your post did you write which game you were talking about (it is always a good idea to say which game you are talking about) and for some reason I got the idea you were talking about EU4. The CKII expansions are (trying to list them in the order they were released, but as mentioned no expansions requires anything, but the base game.)
I am listing the main thing they do in paranthesis; often they do more things. Though some things were in the free patch; like adding India. You can play in India without having Rajas; you just cannot play as a character with Indian religion/culture.
With regard to religions being unlocked with expansions: They weren't locked from the start in an attempt to milk the franchise; there simply was nothing. They weren't locked initially and you could mod the game to let you play as a non Christian religion. There just were nothing and what little there was was like Catholics. So the expansions 'unlocking' religions essentially added them, Also the way Paradox makes DLC much of the DLC content is in the free patch; the AI also runs all DLC no matter whether or not you own them (otherwise other religions wouldn't have any content and interacting with them would as a player would be more boring.)

Sword of Islam (Lets you play as Muslims.)
Legacy of Rome (Adds retinues and fleshes out the Byzzies; recommended no matter what.)
Sunset Invasion (Lets you have an Aztec invasion; essentially a reverse 1492 with disease and all. People are divided over this; some hate it and some love it. It was made as a fun project by the devs in their spare time.)
The Republic (Lets you play as republics.)
The old Gods (Lets you play as pagans; adds an 867 start.)
Sons of Abraham (Fleshes out Christianity and Islam; adds Judaism.)
Rajas of India (Lets you play as an Indian ruler.)
Charlemagne (Adds a 769 start.)
Way of Life (Adds loads of events and lifestyles; beware of people seducing your wife!)

 

[the cool guy]

It is for EU4. Nowhere in your post did you write which game you were talking about (it is always a good idea to say which game you are talking about) and for some reason I got the idea you were talking about EU4. The CKII expansions are (trying to list them in the order they were released, but as mentioned no expansions requires anything, but the base game.)
I am listing the main thing they do in paranthesis; often they do more things. Though some things were in the free patch; like adding India. You can play in India without having Rajas; you just cannot play as a character with Indian religion/culture.
With regard to religions being unlocked with expansions: They weren't locked from the start in an attempt to milk the franchise; there simply was nothing. They weren't locked initially and you could mod the game to let you play as a non Christian religion. There just were nothing and what little there was was like Catholics. So the expansions 'unlocking' religions essentially added them, Also the way Paradox makes DLC much of the DLC content is in the free patch; the AI also runs all DLC no matter whether or not you own them (otherwise other religions wouldn't have any content and interacting with them would as a player would be more boring.)

Sword of Islam (Lets you play as Muslims.)
Legacy of Rome (Adds retinues and fleshes out the Byzzies; recommended no matter what.)
Sunset Invasion (Lets you have an Aztec invasion; essentially a reverse 1492 with disease and all. People are divided over this; some hate it and some love it. It was made as a fun project by the devs in their spare time.)
The Republic (Lets you play as republics.)
The old Gods (Lets you play as pagans; adds an 867 start.)
Sons of Abraham (Fleshes out Christianity and Islam; adds Judaism.)
Rajas of India (Lets you play as an Indian ruler.)
Charlemagne (Adds a 769 start.)
Way of Life (Adds loads of events and lifestyles; beware of people seducing your wife!)

Should be noted that the religions (and republics) also have changed gameplay.

 

[Deathmachinept]

This is not about people who are certain to buy all the DLCs or even regular fans of paradox that follow the news, read the DDs and so on. They will buy DLCs no matter what, a season pass (don't do subscriptions for a mainly solo game, ever, it's a terrible idea), might enable you to squeeze a bit more from this target audience, but it's not really relevant IMO.

It's about the new customers that hear about the games two year laters (or old customers that returns to the game after two years)

And they see this :

This would put off anyone from buying any game. The DLC list is larger than the game description ...
This is just telling people "you're not actually buying the full game for 40€, the full game will actually cost you 145€"
Also even though there are sales quite often, the price tag of the game or its older DLCs never changed.

I agree entirely just make less DLC but with more content and do not inflate the price with Low detail Sprites and ask for 1$(just selling 100 of these already means they are making a profit), CK2 even with all DLC is not worth much more than 30€.

EXPANSIONS, DLC with more value and a much more stable price will give money, more customers and better consumer confidence.

This graph can be a little bit worrisome many people predict a game crash other say it's already happening, the only way to not be affected is by installing consumer confidence and real value on your products

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/259657/average-game-on-steam-sells-an-estimated-32000-units/

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I say that the DLC is a problem on Steam's end. It's a terrible platform for sorting out products. There ought to be developer-made folders and sorting methods so that you can quickly find what you want, and see no more than what you're looking for... like I want to see if there's graphical content for Muslims, so I set my search parameters as "Islam" and "Unit Packs."

The other day I bought a ton of the little stuff (face packs, unit packs, music), and it was a mess trying to sort through the list.

 

[Mikalos]

I say that the DLC is a problem on Steam's end. It's a terrible platform for sorting out products. There ought to be developer-made folders and sorting methods so that you can quickly find what you want, and see no more than what you're looking for... like I want to see if there's graphical content for Muslims, so I set my search parameters as "Islam" and "Unit Packs."

The other day I bought a ton of the little stuff (face packs, unit packs, music), and it was a mess trying to sort through the list.

That wouldn't change the two big issues of paradox's dlc model though: the complete product is still a very high number and price, and the list is still long, organizizing just masks that issue.

In the future, i think we need less dlc split into tiny bits (and over time, merge the ones that do exist whn possible to cut down on bloat), no graphic dlc that improves content i already had to buy a dlc to use: old gods and charlemagne both have minor dlc to improve characters who for any meaningful way, only exist in old gods and charly starts. and no dlc for things that really should be in by default - such as the african character dlc and the shieldpacks, accurate dynasty coats for a game about playing a dynasty and black skin shouldn't be paywalled.