Will the new DLC consider adjusting the portrayal of nomadic people (especially Mongol) regarding innovations and military?

[moon_and_stars]

In the current game, the tribal government locks innovations in the Tribal Era. From the released dev diaries of the nomadic DLC, aside from the "raid for Innovation" hinted in raiding intentions, there seems to be limited mention of changes in this aspect (unless I missed details).
Currently, Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire remains restricted to tribal-era innovations, heavily relying on huge event-spawned troops to compensate. However, the Mongols actively assimilated technologies from conquered lands: during western campaigns, they mobilized Chinese artisans; in battles like the siege of Xiangyang against the Southern Song, they famously deployed "Hui Hui Pao" (trebuchets built by Arab engineers). European and Arab chronicles also extensively documented their use of heavily armored cavalry, elite infantry, sophisticated weaponry, and formidable military organizational prowess.

Given that this DLC focuses on nomadic mechanics, it would be disappointing if Mongol conquests continue to be portrayed through simplistic stereotypical "horse archer" units form events-spawn or just received new cultural units with overpowered stats. This would feel akin to tribal-era barbarians wielding lightsabers to slaughter enemies — a dissonant, fantasy-game-esque approach (like fictional factions in some fantasy titles).. I wonder if the developers plan to implement mechanics that better reflect the adaptive military technology of nomadic conquerors.

 

[IngvarBS]

They said it in the dd. You will be able to raid for innovations and, when you get a feudal/realm as a tributary, you can hire their MAA. So you could still get the more advanced MAA. You will just be limited to paying gold for them.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

The latest dev diary touches on this.

 

[Zylathas]

In my honest opinion innovations are by far the weakest part of the game. If you aren't cultural head you don't really interact with it at all. You get giant unlocks, but they take ages to unlock. And they haven't really touched it anymore since all the way back to Fate of Iberia. So its a quite neglected feature too at this point.

I still want a system with smaller but more often unlockable upgrades where all rulers participate in.

 

[moon_and_stars]

They said it in the dd. You will be able to raid for innovations and, when you get a feudal/realm as a tributary, you can hire their MAA. So you could still get the more advanced MAA. You will just be limited to paying gold for them.

THX, I check the dd again. thats looks better. however, Recruiting MAA from tributary sounds not particularly convenient... I think if players could order vassals of different cultures to specifically train certain MAAs, then let players recruit them, it might be a better idea?

 

[IngvarBS]

THX, I check the dd again. thats looks better. however, Recruiting MAA from tributary sounds not particularly convenient... I think if players could order vassals of different cultures to specifically train certain MAAs, then let players recruit them, it might be a better idea?

Give you suggestion on the DD post (or on the next dd ). They may adjust it.

 

[GenericType]

Is this going to be locked behind a cultural tradition?

 

[MarkFranz]

In my honest opinion innovations are by far the weakest part of the game. If you aren't cultural head you don't really interact with it at all.

It's honestly hillarios that technology development of entire culture is basically depends on single person learning. CK2 system while had it own flaws, made more sense to me.

 

[Zylathas]

It's honestly hillarios that technology development of entire culture is basically depends on single person learning. CK2 system while had it own flaws, made more sense to me.

That. It also makes learning less useful unless you are cultural head.

I think that the concept of cultural head should be scrapped entirely. I think that each independent count and above ruler of a culture should be able to sponsor a certain unlock of which their learning matters the most in how much progress that would gather. And to balance smaller vs larger cultures perhaps the sponsorship should be based on the % of the counties of that culture you have. So if there are like 15 dutch counties and you hold 3, your sponsorship would contribute 20% to the unlock you are sponsoring.

Next to that, perhaps gold (and/or a court position) should also be an option to sponsor a certain innovation.

 

[Joanpetit77]

Sorry for the late reply. I find that représentation of nomads that this DLC does is boring, these games represent them as people who are only good at plundering the sédentarys and that they représent them as "noble savages" à seen in popular culture, they have sacrificed the historical facts out the Window for à better "atmosphere". Seriously, they could have done much for this dlc, such as for example giving them millitaro-administrative based on decimal system, a double monarchy system, the possibillity of building many cities and capitals for à better control over trades routes, more important events, and historicaly accurate titles.

 

[tribnia]

THX, I check the dd again. thats looks better. however, Recruiting MAA from tributary sounds not particularly convenient... I think if players could order vassals of different cultures to specifically train certain MAAs, then let players recruit them, it might be a better idea?

A main problem is that, after the collapse of Mongol Empire, it's obvious the Mongols on steppe suffered a technology setback, many technologies not related to nomadic lifestyle seems to be completely forgotten in several generations. However, in current CK3, once you've researched a technology, you'll never be able to forget it.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

millitaro-administrative based on decimal system,

Is the decimal military organization system widespread enough to warrant general application across nomads? So far as I know it was a largely Genghis Khan thing.

 

[Joanpetit77]

Is the decimal military organization system widespread enough to warrant general application across nomads? So far as I know it was a largely Genghis Khan thing.

It is often à widespread idea among the public to think that is was Gengis khan who invented the decimal system when it is not true, the oldest mention of the word "Tümen"(Units of 1000 or 2000, the number of people varies greatly depending on the time) was found in the inscription of the inscription of the Orkhon, which dated from the 2nd Turkut Khaganate (Gokturks) and still easily supposed that this system of organization dates back to the time of Xiongnu empire, Genghis khan actually just réorganised his troops to better manage the populations of the "mongolian" plateau of that time( which included 1 to 2 million people) Eurasians nomads show à great deal of continuity throughout history, both in the administrative and millitay sphères.