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Or are we still going to get an Angevin Empire with no feudal obligations to the King of France?
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I really hope for more fluidity! E.g. Finally allow some tactical approach to titles instead of just "hoarding" them. I also hope for a breakup of the tier-system. The Count of Flanders could well be more powerful than the duke of Normandy etc.
Given it is a character focused/driven game, I think the answer is no, but it could be solved by making the liege "own" the vassal titles which would fit the feudal nature of the game. Maybe there should be like two kinds of vassal, one is like the current CK2 in which the vassal completely own their titles and the second type would be vassals that burrow their titles from their liege.
Actually we would need different types of feudalism. Dukes in 12 century France were basically like kings that paid lipservice to the crown while barons in England were under the kings thumb
I hope there will be a greater flexibility in vasselage relationship and vassals will be tied to characters rather than titles.
So a count may have multiple vassals counts. A king may have an other king as his vassal. I would also like to see partial vassalization. So the King of England may be vassal of the French king for some of his lands as it happened in real life. And finally characters with multiple distinct feudal lords. Lets say an Alsacian lord who is vassal of the French king for some of his lands but vassal to the Emperor for other.
That said it would be a hell of a challenge to introduce this level of complexity in an intuitive way for people unfamiliar with the madness that was medieval society.
So a count may have multiple vassals counts. A king may have an other king as his vassal. I would also like to see partial vassalization. So the King of England may be vassal of the French king for some of his lands as it happened in real life. And finally characters with multiple distinct feudal lords. Lets say an Alsacian lord who is vassal of the French king for some of his lands but vassal to the Emperor for other.
That said it would be a hell of a challenge to introduce this level of complexity in an intuitive way for people unfamiliar with the madness that was medieval society.
What do you mean "different types of feudalism"? To represent that, you'd need an autonomy system where different vassals have different liege obligations. I think that would be a great idea that could add lots of nuance to realms.
Well feudalism is not one thing thath applied to all of europe. A count in Germany had different responsibilities than a duke in France. Autonomy would definitely play into that for example
This would be a very good idea, but I doubt they will bother to try and do something this nuanced.
An interesting counterpoint is the situation in Wales, Ireland and Scotland during the latter part of CK2's timeline. Under Henry II, all of these regions swore fealty to him, but control over both ebbed away during the reign of his descendants, until English control over Ireland was negligible and Scotland returned to independence. Wales throughout this time remained on a closer leash, but very much remained a separately-administered state to England until the reign of Edward I, while other parts of what we would now call Wales were administered by the marcher lords- more independent than most other vassals, but still very much a part of England.
If CK3 is able to model this kind of vassal fluidity, I can see myself clocking up 500 hours in a matter of months.
If CK3 is able to model this kind of vassal fluidity, I can see myself clocking up 500 hours in a matter of months.
Definitely an important addition to make to the game. As I've noted elsewhere, the King of England was in vassalage to the King of France for his territories in Aquitaine, a major contributing factor to the century of conflict between the two powers, and the most famous example of this kind of dual vassalage. It is, however, not quite the sole example. The counts of Foix were in vassalage to the French crown, but were proudly independent and sovereign in their viscounty of Bearn. The later dukes of Burgundy were premier peers of France, but also counts of Burgundy in the dignity of the Holy Roman Empire. The counts of Flanders are another similar case, paying homage to the French for some of their titles and the German crown for others. Sardinia and Corsica were held by the king of Aragon as papal fiefs, and Naples-Sicily was another case of a kingdom at least on paper in vassalage to the Pope (a mechanic that should be recognized in its own right - the Pope's right to grant claims on those territories if the current ruler displeases him).
If this + a law customization/creation feature so there isnt a set amount of law but you can create them by mixing different rules etc, I can see myself sinking 1000hs in a matter of weeks.
Wait. Bordergore WAS the reality of the Middle Ages. Why is it being seen as a problem to be solved?
