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Winning the HRE despite being at -200 with every elector

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Thanks BiB!

After reading your post to start this thread, I was able to get my Hapsburgs elected Emperor of the HRE. After playing multiple GCs as various Catholic nations & not being able to do it, I was a tad frustrated. But your advice worked. I held the office for 100 years, despite -200 relations with myself (I hadn't intended to be a Bad Boy, but I couldn't stand to see Protestants go unmolested). ;)

While the idea of diplomatic relations with yourself is somewhat silly, the major problem (as with many things in EU) is the undocumented nature of the system. Not knowing that there is such a thing, or what effects it, makes the situation hard to deal with. That's why these boards are so helpful. Huszik can point out how self-relations can get negative (annexations) & how to imrpove them (take cash settlements in war). Armed with this information, I can make better-informed decisions about how I am going to tackle the challenges of the game.

So thanks guys! :)
 
Np, we aim to please. Being the HRE rules quite a bit, eh ? :D

That -200 relation with urself does give u quite a handicap compared to Spain though but seeing they tend to be bad boys, it's quite doable.
 
The relation with one self should be seen as the relation of the monarch to the rest of his government. If Austria has a -200 relation to itself it means that the government of Austria, the foreign minister, important nobility etc. don't want their king to rule the Holy Roman Empire.
 
Shouldn't relations with yourself really be linked to stabilty, eg. like this:

Stability / ROY
+3 / 200
+2 / 133
+1 / 67
0 / 0
-1 / -67
-2 / -133
-3 & below / -200

which would imply (in relation to the HRE) that if you can't manage your own country well, then you have less chance of becoming the HRE.
 
What is this whole HRE thing? I've been surprised when a pop up screen announced that the king of Spain has just been elected, but I didn't find any mention of the HRE in the manual, let alone the consequences it could have...
 
Originally posted by laurent


What is this whole HRE thing? I've been surprised when a pop up screen announced that the king of Spain has just been elected, but I didn't find any mention of the HRE in the manual, let alone the consequences it could have...
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Holy Roman Empire (check your manual again, it's in there)
 
dynastic unions

Most countries have -200 towards themselves after some play in which it wasn't totally sclerotic (for example Austria diplo annexing Hungary and getting Bohemia should get it -200 towards each other). Spain and Austria are both at -200 with theirselves. Spain is e.g. +180 with Austria and vice versa. This adds +180 to Spain's election count while Austria gets -200 added to its count, about too big a gap to bridge. So basically Austria votes Spain in in favour of itself!

This also explains why Spain still gets to be HRE even when Austria controls every HRE province. Austria is at -200 with the only member of the HRE while Spain has the best relations in the world with the only member of the HRE. So Spain gets voted in.
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Could this be some sort of mechanism to simulate Charles V union of Spain & Austria?
 
if all states have +200 relation with itself it would vote for itself. when all kingdoms get one vote each no emperor will be chosen.
I agree that it is strange that a king votes against himself but it wouldnt work otherwise
 
It might still work if it's a total of the relation with other members of the HRE (should be the Electors, but it still applies). If every country has +200 with itself, that would balance out; the remaining relations with others would thus make the difference. The same would apply if all nations had zero with themselves. - Except that Spain (for example, or Poland, as I've seen) has a better chance if the nations of the HRE have zero for themselves than if they have +200. e.g. Austria has zero for itself and +10 for Spain; all the others being equal, Austria swings the election to Spain instead of itself.

(This was one of the things I forgot to put on my wish-list in the 1.09 Patch thread ...)
 
As Austria I have been extremely wicked (last time I check I was over 200 BB and not 200 years into GC). I never got the HRE after first monarch died, Spain always did. By now (1680s) all HRE is owned by me except Venice (Corfu here I come). However, Spain and I are pals and have always been pals. So that seems to back up what BiB is saying, I like Spain but hate myself so Spain wins. BTW Venice has hated me forever as well, can't count the number of times I set all those canals on fire.
 
I actually have a positive relation with myself right now, I am playing as Saxony and I appear green on the dip map. What's odd is I have conquered both Thuringen and all of Brandenburg so my badboy is about 24 I have very little money and a stability of 0, yet the relation is still positive. I am running 1.08 though so this could be the root of it
 
Originally posted by InnocentIII
BTW Venice has hated me forever as well, can't count the number of times I set all those canals on fire.
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I've smelt the canals in Venice. They would thank you for cleaning them up with an occasional fire. :D
 
Okay, can you guys please help me with this HRE headache? I've been following all you've been saying about the relations to oneself, so in my current game with Bohemia I edited the savegame to have +200 self relations. I have conquered all of the HRE except the Netherlands, Savoy, Genoa, and Tuscany. All of those countries are over +150 while Spain is around +0 - +30 with all of them and at -200 with me and -150 with themselves to boot (btw, Austria is no longer a contender since I annexed them about 40 years ago.) By all rights Bohemia should be elected the next HRE since I have the best relations of any other catholic nation with all the remaining HRE countries. However, when I get to the next election it still elects Felipe III of Spain instead of me. I can't figure it out. Do any of you have a clue as to what I'm doing wrong? Does my relations with other Catholic nations outside the HRE affect it at all? (My relations with France, Papal States, Spain, Portugal and Venice really suck at this point but none of them are shown as being part of the HRE).

If I can't get the game to vote me in is there anyway I can edit the savegame file to make myself emperor. I tried changing the line near the beginning that read emperor: SPA to BOH. That "officially" made me the emperor (it said it by my name on my monarch screen); but I didn't get the benefits that go with it, like being able to march my troops anywhere within the HRE. Is there another line that I'm missing that I need to edit?

Please help!
 
Votes for the Emperor were originally cast by the individual Electoral Princes (seven originally, with an eighth added in 1648, a ninth in 1700, and a tenth later in the 18th century). One of the Princes was the King of Bohemia, which was a Habsburg title for most of the period in question. To my knowledge the Habsburgs never voted against themselves during this entire period.

A more realistic way to model the elections would be to use a preference-type system. Each state with a vote (and the franchise should be limited to the historical Electors) would generate a list of all legal candidates. Each state would put itself at the top of its own list, and then each remaining candidate would be ranked by that state depending on their current, mutual, diplomatic rating.

If there were seventeen legal candidates, then the top candidate on each elector's list would get 17 points from that elector; the next one 16 points, and so on; the lowest listed candidate on each elector's list would get one point. The candidate with the greatest point score from all the electors would become Emperor.

Protestant and Reform candidates should be legal; the Thirty Year's War broke out in main part because the Elector Palatinate tried to sieze the Kingdom of Bohemia to get its electoral vote. However, three of the electoral princes were archbishops, and would never vote for a non-Catholic; they should award all non-Catholic candidates zero points on their respective lists.

This isn't completely historical, but would in some sense model the horse-trading and back-room politics that went into the Imperial Elections. To be completely historical, just make the Habsburgs Emperor each time they have a male monarch; the only time the Habsburgs lost the throne was during Maria Theresa's reign, when the Bavarian Duke got the job. After the Bavarian died, Maria's husband was elected.
 
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However the catholic only rule is there in the game because otherwise the Habsburg hardly ever win. The catholic religious electors aren't present while the HRE is full with Lutheran states who all vote.
 
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